You know almost every fighting game is just a clone of Street Fighter 2. Side scroll, use health bars on top, and use a combo system. So clearly, fighting games are just clones of SF2.
Using a system "that works" is not a clone. I will admit, RIFT used WoW's concepts and UI to the point it is borderline copyright infringement, but it was still good, before it got quickly boring. Sometimes taking successful and putting your unique spin to it is what makes something successful and not a clone.
That is just how a genre works. First person shooters come with the standard setup, changing anything beyond that, you really need to have a good idea backing you up. Resident Evil 4 revolutionized how 3rd person shooters work, now you see it's concepts put in a lot of games.
So with MMO's, WoW may not have been completely original, but it did set the standard on how to make a UI and content setup work, and other companies acknowledge that. What I like FFXIV will be doing is taking that template and making it special, and out there from the others.
That is how video games work folks, originality appears about once every blue moon.
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10-18-2011, 06:03 AMVelhart
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10-18-2011, 06:24 AMMinya
Yay! This is why I love this community. I feel like SE really listens to what we have to say. :D
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10-18-2011, 06:37 AMStanislaw
Aaaand the official translation is up.
Check it out here (click for link): -
10-18-2011, 07:07 AMDavorokHas the Job System been moved up to v1.20 ?Quote:
Furthermore, we’ll be implementing the following in patch 1.20:
Improving markets
⇒Purchase directly from the item search feature
⇒Transaction history of the 20 most recent items (to gauge the current market rate)
⇒Custom searches for specific item details
Implementation of a Player Search function
⇒Search for class, job, level, language, PT request, etc.
- Overhaul of class actions
- Primal Dark Moogle battle
- Implementation of achievement system
- Implementation of job system ***
- Addition of various instanced raids
- Primal Garuda battle
- Empire battle content
- Continuing to tweak the UI
- Crafting and gathering system adjustments
- New recipes and materials
Or is that a list of upcoming features that will be implemented by v2.0 (1.21, 1.22, etc.)? -
10-18-2011, 07:16 AMStanislawThe original Japanese text reads as "これからパッチ1.20以降で行う", which I would translate as "Patches 1.20 and beyond", so I think that's an outline of plans for things they will implement in both 1.20 AND patches beyond that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Davorok
So no, I don't think the Job System has been moved up to patch 1.20. It is stated in the interview Yoshi-P gave in this thread (click for link), which, translated, says:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi-P
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10-18-2011, 07:37 AMRobbieYes cause the whole world is just Japan and America.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinydog
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10-18-2011, 11:08 AMAnapingofnessI say that this game is turning into a WoW clone because I have played WoW, for several years in fact (while playing FFXI as well). I mentioned before that in my opinion FFXI was the better game. Enough about me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hachiko
The reason people are saying this game is becoming a WoW clone is because of the parallels that SE didn't bother to even convert to their own for FFXIV. Much like WoW and their "giant bird mounts" /coughclearlynotinfluencedbyffatallcough
I mean it's downright shameless how much SE is taking from WoW.
Allow me to list examples. I'll be quoting Yoshida-san.
"Furthermore, we are offering a play experience unlike any other MMORPG by providing content that is only available to enjoy now. "
Hey kids, remember the temporary quests/content WoW had pre-Cataclysm where, for example, Sylvanas got Valkyries and players were able to reclaim Gnomeregan? You can't experience those things anymore in the game. Furthermore, this is not the first time WoW has done that. Also, WoW isn't the only game to do that unfortunately for FFXIV, WoW is the MMO leader right now so yeah, it will be seen as taking from WoW.
Moving on-
"Content Finder" = Dungeon Finder. In WoW it is also cross server. However, WoW's servers are not only language specific but type specific (PVP, PVE, and RP). The computer then forms groups based on each pool in addition to langauge specific servers.
"Language Servers (language servers and global servers)"- Granted WoW doesn't have both the way Yoshida-san wishes to make it here. However, having global servers is fairly pointless because people will simply go with language specific.
"PvP/Large Scale PvP"- ok PVP... a major component of WoW. I mean one doesn't think of WoW without thinking of PVP (however good/bad it may be. I don't care)
In WoW you have Arena which will be equivalent to the FFXIV Colosseum and then the "Large Scale PvP" sounds a lot like Battle Grounds.
Also since I've heard you can level via PVP- hey, you can also level WoW via PVP.
But more importantly than taking these things from WoW is the fact that SE basically didn't take anything that made FFXI unique (or FF in general) and make it amazing nor did they use the FF lore to make FFXIV more like an FF game.
If they had maintained what FF is known for- characters, storyline, world (just to name a few) it wouldn't be such a big problem. However, I've heard nothing and most importantly- have seen nothing that is going to prove otherwise.
Plus it also sucks that we have to pay for this crap as it is now. If he won't be giving us a discount then he should at the very least not charge us until after 1.22 so we can see these oh-so-amazing changes, cause darling, I don't trust SE. They've been biffing rather spectacularly for the past several years with each new game release. -
10-18-2011, 12:11 PMDawiichanExclusivity is not being unique. Exclusivity is letting you have something that others can/will not. Saying that SE is taking that idea from blizzard is like saying an exclusive DLC to a PS3 game is taking the idea from blizzard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anapingofness
I give you this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anapingofness
Having preferred language servers doesn't make it anything like WoW. First of all they're servers. Second of all WoW has different regions so all the servers are based off one language.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anapingofness
Having PvP does not make it a wow clone. First of all FFXI had similar PvP to what was described. There was something like a PvP arena and they also had large scale(more like faction) PvP. They're adding things that were already there. [/QUOTE]Quote:
Originally Posted by Anapingofness
No one I know has even heard of this. I've yet to see this once.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anapingofness
Classes, Jobs, Instanced Bosses(BCNM/KSNM). A rich(yet thus far incomplete) story line?Quote:
Originally Posted by Anapingofness
Cid is probably the only, if not one of the few universal FF characters in the FF universe. Yet Cid has already appeared in FFXIV. Pretty sure they just said that we are getting an exclusive story line on the Seventh Umbral Era. Then the world... honestly the only major land marks FF has is a chocobo forest and a room with a crystal in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anapingofness
I don't disagree with the discount on subs. I honestly believe they should too but I wouldn't be disappointed if they don't. It's your decision on what you believe the game is like and if paying is worth it but considering that you said certain things don't exist which actually do, my guess is that you haven't played enough to know all of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anapingofness
With what points you have given, I do not see how they are all specific to WoW and how SE is striving away from FFXI/FF. I do believe that looking at other MMO's successful ideas is a good thing, but I don't believe that with the information they are giving that it will be a copy of anything but a FF game. -
10-18-2011, 12:25 PMPicomanYoshi-P is implementing MMORPG standards to meet player expectations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anapingofness
Simply because they exist in WoW does not mean FFXIV is a clone. It just means some of the things WoW made popular have become industry standards therefore MMOs released without certain systems are labeled 'unfinished'.
I don't give two ****s about WoW. I believe in Yoshi-P and trust him to deliver a Final Fantasy.
You are an SE hater, i get it. You probably have your reasons. Good for you.
Cya, there is the door.
)Over there( ---> -
10-18-2011, 01:54 PMSylvariHmm.. keep it short and sweet.... Why reinvent the wheel for the sake of others? If WoW has these mechanics good for them... And I'm aware you can lvl up using PvP in WoW, but that was only implemented in the last year or so... Just cause they are adding a lot of mechanics that WoW has doesnt mean its a WoW clone.. As for the Battle grounds argument you've got going... See Warhammer Online...Quote:
Originally Posted by Anapingofness
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10-18-2011, 02:48 PMMysteriousRoninThey're Mithra, deal with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrees
So we can choose names for our characters when re-customizing? There's no evidence that it will be possible. I play on the unofficial RP server and am very picky about what each of my characters names are.
Also, I read the info released a few times and nowhere does it say when the Male Mithra will be released, 2.0 is not specific enough because 2.0 is being gradually released over the next year.
You've gone and made yourself look foolish. -
10-18-2011, 04:25 PMColdbrand
Can anyone CM tell the dev team I want the option to have blank eyes again like Galka F8B did? I miss my soulless looking eyes. :(
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10-18-2011, 09:14 PMChreesI was just trying to be snarky with the Mithra comment, but it looks like someone took it a little too seriously. This isn't FFXI anymore. They're called Miqo'te. It's as simple as that.Quote:
Originally Posted by MysteriousRonin
I'd imagine you would be able to rename your character, seeing as how there are quite a few players who have names based on their race. But no, there's no concrete evidence that suggests this.
As for the release date of male Miqo'te, I gave you the quotes where it very clearly states when they'll be released. How much clearer than "for version 2.0" do you want them to get? It shows in the roadmap when 2.0 is going to be officially released, which is about a year from now...all you have to do is put two and two together. Nowhere does it say that 2.0 will gradually be released over the next year. The content we'll be getting until 2.0 hits will be unique to the game we're playing now, with most of it not being playable after the redesign. I think you need to go back and re-read it one more time...
Pot, meet kettle. -
10-19-2011, 10:52 AMAnapingofnessFirstly let me begin by saying a word of thanks to you Dawiichan for a rather in depth rebuttal. It must have taken a bit of time to go point by point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawiichan
That being said it is clear to me that the point I was trying to get across wasn’t being understood. The fault lies with me and for that I apologize.
Allow me to clarify and possibly rephrase so that I am understood better. I will do my best to be brief however in an effort to be better understood the post may become somewhat lengthy.
It is not so much the point that SE is “taking WoW concepts” as SE is doing it in a rather arse backwards manner.
It is completely irrelevant if WoW/Blizzard had coined any of these terms or if they had simply taken them. In fact, many of us know that WoW has taken from other games before whether that is an idea for mounts or the idea for storyline. It really doesn’t matter.
What matters is that WoW right now is the “best” MMO out there. By best I mean it is the one that is the most popular and as a result brings in the most money. That last part is the really important part in this.
As of right now FFXIV is the worst MMO out there. On a scale of 1 to 100, with 1 being the best and 100 being the worst- FFXIV is at number 100. It goes without saying that WoW would then be Number 1.
This is because when the game launched is was far beyond sub par without even the most basic/standard of functions. However, I will not go into those. I think by now we all know what they are.
Let’s get back on track.
It is because FFXIV is in such a pickle that it will be seen as taking from WoW. SE appears to be fairly desperate and not only that but it follows simple logic. If WoW is Number 1 then you will take the things that make it Number 1 and adapt it to your game.
Unfortunately, in my opinion, SE has strayed too far from what makes an FF title an FF title. Certainly, FFXIV is a beautiful game- that was one thing that even the bad reviews agreed on.
That being said, people wouldn’t have as much of a problem about SE “taking WoW mechanics” if it didn’t feel as if they were going further and further away from the FF feel that we all grew up with.
You pointed out that the description of PVP felt as if it was describing the PVP FFXI had? To that I say, by God I hope you’re right.
Unfortunately when I read those notes all I could interpreted it as “WoW mechanics… really? D= What about all of the FF-ness? Where is it going? Are they completely ignoring the 9 years worth of experience they’ve gotten from FFXI?”
Clearly, I wasn’t the only one. Perhaps the fault isn’t entirely with me.
Perhaps the fault may lie with the vagueness of the statements that can clearly be linked to WoW (for the aforementioned reasons) without the explanation of how it will fit into the FFXIV world? How will these choices effect the community? Such as the Content Finder being cross all servers vs just one.
I think that this is a good question to ask at the next LIVE letter. Can he clarify/explain some of those statements?
Maybe that will help douse some of the anger felt by the fans who feel cheated and more than a little betrayed?
I will say one more thing, Yoshida-san has given us a lot of information. This much is true. However, to me, it is not enough. I look at the PDF's and ask "What exactly is Parlay going to become" or "What does Character System mean?" or "What does Large Scale PVP mean?"
They may seem like silly questions but I don't know if that means that we'll be able to make our characters chubby, short, pick the size of their eyes or bewbs or what? I mean, do we get sliders or will we still be picking from preset models and swatches?
Hopefully we get more choices but then again, we could get less. Giving us a bit more information wouldn't hurt, just enough so that you don't have as many people claiming it is "becoming a WoW clone".
I realize that you can't make everyone happy but right now... we're all this game's got and there's not that many of us. Not enough to keep it afloat and unfortunately because of the situation it's losing a staggering amount of players.
I apologize for the long read, I did try to make it brief. I hope this explained my views better. -
10-19-2011, 11:00 AMAlerith
I have a genuine question about Yoshida himself....
Is this his first project as a producer? He's really been doing a fantastic job in many aspects from managing the dev team to communicating with the players. In all honesty, he's not like a typical producer, and I'm wondering if the fact that he's a true gamer himself is the contributing factor to the leaps and bounds the game has made since took over.