Is it unreasonable to seek people at the part of a fight as you are?

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Originally Posted by ReddAxel

It's your party finder, sure. But that's quite a disservice to anyone who's just getting home from work or school and wanna learn the fight. This is the exact same thing the JP playerbase was giving the NA players shit for.

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That guy wasn't even Japanese he just plays on a JP server.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

That guy wasn't even Japanese he just plays on a JP server.

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he wasn't? lol

OP:

https://media.giphy.com/media/GQnsaAWZ8ty00/giphy.gif

That is the best option to get a better PF community

You could reject them.
You could try and teach a few people.

There were two possibilities. You chose the one you thought was best. Not going to say most people would think that in the real world - in a job setting, refusing to tell the one person who missed a small bit of information so they could participate would likely get you reprimanded, or if it were in training, i.e. day one like this, probably fired - but if you felt that's what you needed.

Your PF - Your rules...having said that though if you're asking people to be a point X, or Y this fast..you're gonna have a bad time

I think it comes down tot he amount of people that are using the PF at the time. I think many NA players are now of the opinion that JP servers have an extremely active PF scene where if you're looking to learn and progress through a specific phase of a fight, you can find it in PF. And once you know the fight, head over to DF and beat it. I have no idea if that is true or not. What I do know is that on my server, all I see in PF are about 5-7 listings, some FC recruitment, others people asking to buy mats, and the "Looking for X for A3S phase 4". Rarely do you see learning parties. And when you do see them, they rarely fill. Why? I have no idea.

I am sorry to say, but the raiding scene is this game is utter garbage. I mean, if you don't believe me, just look at Diadem--is there any other ways that SE wants to shit on their own raiders? It's not that players are not good enough, it's that the NA scene has zero tolerance to learning.

Also, it's not unreasonable to be expecting people to have a certain knowledge of the fight. Just, keep in mind that if you have to wait 60-120 minutes for someone who has exp at phase 4, that is essentially 6-10 pull attempts with someone who is new. If you don't wait that long for a PF to fill, then cheers! You beat the system.

No, I don't think you're unreasonable. Why? You worked to get where you are, and there is absolutely no reason for you to not want others who are of the same level with you to get even farther.

There is absolutely no reason for you to whine and complain when you're not included when your abilities are not up to date with the rest of the group when they specifically ask for it. Do not sit there and try to bring an entire group down because you have to learn placements or the like.

It's like how our society as a whole has been bending to cater to those who cry about it hard enough. Don't reach requirements for a job? Complain and throw a fit and have the masses go to your aid without hesitation because of 'bullying' and being 'mean.'

Tl;dr: OP is fine and the NA community really needs to kick its own ass and get in shape if they want any sort of progression on making this community better.

Everyone who says that you need to wait a day or two before you make parties for certain phases or clears are basically saying: "You are not allowed to enjoy content or do content or do what ever you want to, you are only allowed to teach people the first few days and only teach."

There is nothing wrong with asking for players with similar experience levels so that you may all progress into the fight and see later phases. From what I've seen on the forums, that is the way the JP players use theirs - learning parties that specify phases so that everyone can practice phases that are relevant to them.

For all the people saying he is doing a disservice to the raiding community I say the opposite. It is the players who join his party without knowing up to the specified phase that are doing a disservice to the PUG community. Those that join without the necessary experience wanting to be taught the fight cause players to try to avoid PF as they know they are going to get players who don't know what they are doing which will cause wipes, the objective to be unfulfilled, and the group to break up, leading people to try to avoid grouping with strangers.

On the other hand, these new players should step up and create their own learning parties. Especially when content is new, it will be easy to fill. "I don't want to lead" is just an excuse, as many of the people on the existing learning parties don't want to lead either. They just sucked it up and created the group.

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Originally Posted by kuma_aus

Everyone who says that you need to wait a day or two before you make parties for certain phases or clears are basically saying: "You are not allowed to enjoy content or do content or do what ever you want to, you are only allowed to teach people the first few days and only teach."

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Followed up with, make farm parties and let us who have zero experience be carried to victory, we dont want to learn or make our own groups. We just want to watch netflix and get the best gear for free.

No, it's not unreasonable at all. I play on a JP server and virtually all PF groups set up by japanese players specify a particular phase they are practicing and a strat. I don't know where this idea that they don't employ this practice comes from, but it is wrong. On the other hand, JP practice parties normally last the full encounter time and don't fall apart after a few wipes. So there's something to ponder.

I would say that for a fight like Thordan EX which has like 9 phases, it makes perfect sense to want to progress with people who are up to the same stage as you. If people are salty about that, then you have to wonder why they don't just start their own PF. It's no one's responsibility to hold your hand through everything, show some intiative.

I don't think it's wrong at all. They can make their own PF. I get annoyed quickly myself when I join a PF for thordan ex, and people get hit with dragons gaze etc. Once you're too a point, you're their. And for me at least it's very hard to put up with a party who isn't at the same point.

Sorry for the typos...on my phone.

OP. I think you are totally in the right.

You have the right to ask for specific people in your PF.

As soon as I get a chance to play and get to that point in the fight/story I will happily join one of your parties.

While it is your PF, I can also see the other person's perspective. Frankly, I think you would be better off taking a chance on some of the newer players as it likely took you longer to find replacements. But again, you're call.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

While it is your PF, I can also see the other person's perspective. Frankly, I think you would be better off taking a chance on some of the newer players as it likely took you longer to find replacements. But again, you're call.

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This is no doubt what the op already did, but once you reach that point you know it 100% and have had newbies each time failing at the same point, its time to seek players with the same experience

Personally, I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with what the OP did. He listed requirements he wanted for his group, he was able to meet those requirements himself (i.e. he wasn't tricking others into joining to carry him), and he was courteous when he had to deny people.

Would it take longer to fill up the party than it would if he just let anyone in? Sure. Would letting anyone in instead of being restrictive help him in the long run? Maybe, maybe not. It may be worth keeping in mind that there were no guide videos of the fight at the time, and only a very brief outline of the fight as text guides, so anyone saying they're a "quick learner" is still seeing the fight blind from the start. It's very likely that if he let anyone in, they'd get to about the same spot after 2-3 attempts and then someone would leave, he'd have to recruit another player, spend another 2-3 attempts teaching them how the fight goes before someone else leaves... and so on.

I wish there were more PFs like OPs. I saw a PF myself that requested to be past dive-bombs. While I'm not at this phase and would've liked to join to learn, this helps those at that point progress. People rage quit too quickly to bring in a new person when a set point is clearly outlined in PF, even if it's a very early phase mechanic.
Also OP, I want to commend you on your handling of that situation. You were very professional and stood your ground.

So this was my experience tonight: I made a pf stating that all players who join would be practicing the dives and we will progress from there, till the meteor phase. Another requirement was to stay till the whole duration.

1st attempt with English players: 1 new player joined, another bailed at 30mins. Reason: sleepy
2nd attempt with English players: 2 new players who didn't read any guide. Disbanded at 30mins because of DCs.
3rd attempt with English players: 2 new players who didn't read any guide. Same players bailed after learning the strats from us. Time lapse: 30 mins
4th attempt with Full JP players: full duration practice with 1 of the attempts having almost cleared.

well... it says for itself. I will never make a pf with English players again.

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Originally Posted by SooChe

So this was my experience tonight: I made a pf stating that all players who join would be practicing the dives and we will progress from there, till the meteor phase. Another requirement was to stay till the whole duration.

1st attempt with English players: 1 new player joined, another bailed at 30mins. Reason: sleepy
2nd attempt with English players: 2 new players who didn't read any guide. Disbanded at 30mins because of DCs.
3rd attempt with English players: 2 new players who didn't read any guide. Same players bailed after learning the strats from us. Time lapse: 30 mins
4th attempt with Full JP players: full duration practice with 1 of the attempts having almost cleared.

well... it says for itself. I will never make a pf with English players again.

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Quoting myself on a previous post in this thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3425725

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Originally Posted by SooChe

1st attempt with English players: 1 new player joined, another bailed at 30mins. Reason: sleepy
2nd attempt with English players: 2 new players who didn't read any guide. Disbanded at 30mins because of DCs.
3rd attempt with English players: 2 new players who didn't read any guide. Same players bailed after learning the strats from us. Time lapse: 30 mins
4th attempt with Full JP players: full duration practice with 1 of the attempts having almost cleared.

well... it says for itself. I will never make a pf with English players again.

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This is strange to me, because all of the groups I've made, have stuck together for 3-4 hours of learning the turn. Matter of fact, we often lack people having difficulty so I suppose morale is higher in those cases?

All of mine are on Balmung

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

This is strange to me, because all of the groups I've made, have stuck together for 3-4 hours of learning the turn. Matter of fact, we often lack people having difficulty so I suppose morale is higher in those cases?

All of mine are on Balmung

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Well, I guess we can't stereotype everyone. I believe in giving others the benefit of doubt. But it will be sometime before I regain that confidence on my server.

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Originally Posted by SooChe

Well, I guess we can't stereotype everyone. I believe in giving others the benefit of doubt. But it will be sometime before I regain that confidence on my server.

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Gah, I'm sorry to hear that. :c I hope you can start getting some more honest/consistent people.

It's obviously not everyone acting like that, but a vast majority is, which you're most likely gonna encounter in 90% of the cases, at least from personal experience even in a previous high populated server/DC. There will always be exceptions but the real bad thing is, you can't trust and waste time everyday to find out, that's how burnt out people get at this point.

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Originally Posted by Kit-Kat

It's obviously not everyone acting like that, but a vast majority is, which you're most likely gonna encounter in 90% of the cases, at least from personal experience even in a previous high populated server/DC. There will always be exceptions but the real bad thing is, you can't trust and waste time everyday to find out, that's how burnt out people get at this point.

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Yea we've gotten a few ... mixed results with some people, who claim they've either cleared or made it to enrage and you just wonder how when you see them get hit by charges. But mind you - everyone makes mistakes, so you have to give 'em a second run to try again.

the worst feeling is wiping in Charges on a Phase 8 / clear party. xD