Parsers and Problems

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Originally Posted by ForbiddenMonk

And if healers are ahead of dps on aggro, then all dps are shit.

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I think you might be out to lunch. As a WHM I can easily out threat the DPS and the tank (sometimes) depending on the scenario; thank goodness for Shroud. This definitely doesn't mean the DPS are bad. :/

so you're telling me, a dps ripping aggro from Tank mid fight is not the top dps atm?

Also, I may not be a dragoon, but Im pretty sure elusive jump is barely used in end game raids other than skipping adds on t10 and getting back to melee ranged asap (a3s). So if a dragoon is using elusive jump to lower his enmity, it means his dps is pretty high to be on brink of ripping aggro from tanks. I dont have a ninja in my static, so I don't know anything about their skills and uses.

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Originally Posted by ForbiddenMonk

so you're telling me, a dps ripping aggro from Tank mid fight is not the top dps atm?

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You might; you might not be. If the DRG popped Elusive during their opening burst they could be topping you even if you steal, just because Elusive is a 50% instant enmity drop.

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Originally Posted by ForbiddenMonk

The trick I use on the ps4 is to look at aggro rankings on party list. If you're hitting enrage, obviously the lowest aggro ranked dps is the issue

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The aggro meter doesn't really work like that...

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You can also tell if your top dps is pulling low numbers by the aggro percentage. If the aggro gauge for the player 2nd on aggro list is less than half, then that means they're also pulling low numbers.

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Or it means that your MT is spamming nothing but his enmity rotation, which is a different issue entirely. If I wear STR gear and spam nothing but RoH combo, I can keep everyone else below 25% easily. WAR/DRK have even more potent enmity generation.

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And if healers are ahead of dps on aggro, then all dps are shit

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I actually lose hate to WHMs more often than any other class.

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For example, in my static, the dragoon and I are always behind MT in aggro, with the gauge at +80%. The dragoon has a parser, I dont; but I can tell whether or not Im top dps by our aggro rankings.

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All you can tell by the aggro ranking is who's generating the most aggro.

My warrior main tanks faust at 1100dps, but Im still hovering around 80% aggro. I was a paladin main tank for 2.0 end game contents, and spaming nothing but ROH combos did not keep dps under 25%

I got a question for you then.

How does a dps generate aggro?
Whats the common factor between DPS and it's relative aggro rate?

Parsers are already being used whether they want them to be or not. At this point the only thing not having an official parser built into game does is hurt the console players. They can't optimize rotations as they can't see what kind of damage they do. This gives PC users further reason to discriminate against console users.

again, if they have to use elusive jump to prevent ripping aggro, very high chance that the dragoon is top single target dps atm.

Really though? Elusive jump in the opening rotation? now you're talking crazy

Elusive jump is a nice skill to avoid an aoe, move to one spot where an add will spawn and you will attack him and obviously, reduce your enmity.

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Originally Posted by ForbiddenMonk

again, if they have to use elusive jump to prevent ripping aggro, very high chance that the dragoon is top single target dps atm.

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DRGs use elusive jump more for movement rather than for the agro drop.
like you said, moving between add packs in T10,.
Getting back to the group after you get away for thunder in T11.
Got nothing on T12 mostly because melee is pampered there :P
Add phase in T13 going from bahamut to add or vice versa, elusive jump + dive/dragonfire covers a lot of ground fast.
Shiva extreme, to get to shiva when the floor is ice and other jumps are on CD.
Bismarck extreme, changing snakes when your debuff changes.
Ravana extreme, elusive jump away at prelude so you can DPS longer, and other moments.
eh you get the gist

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Originally Posted by ForbiddenMonk

so you're telling me, a dps ripping aggro from Tank mid fight is not the top dps atm?

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more of a tank problem unless the DRG got really lucky with crits in opening/burst phase.

and again agro meter is not representative of DPS, because DPS is not the only thing that creates agro.
Not even for melee after NINs get their smokescreen stuff.
and you don't always pay attention to it, you might see the DRG 2nd right when you start fighting the boss, but then you focus on boss and didn't notice the DRG using elusive jump, and now the NIN is 2nd in the agro meter. Does that mean the DRG is doing less DPS than the NIN now? Maybe, maybe not.

agro meter is simply that, a tool to measure agro.

From all my experiences in end game raids, the correlation between aggro rankings and dps output are very high. When I say aggro rankings, I mean the final aggro rankings. I have not encounter a situation where I was ahead of another player in aggro but still lost in single target dps. Again, aggro ranking is a GOOD INDICATOR of dps output, meaning it gives you a relative perspective on dps output but not an exact perspective.



Read: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...5/blog/798362/

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Originally Posted by ForbiddenMonk

From all my experiences in end game raids, the correlation between aggro rankings and dps output are very high. When I say aggro rankings, I mean the final aggro rankings. I have not encounter a situation where I was ahead of another player in aggro but still lost in single target dps. Again, aggro ranking is a GOOD INDICATOR of dps output, meaning it gives you a relative perspective on dps output but not an exact perspective.

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WHM/AST spamming AoE heals = top DPS, confirmed.

Apparently Quelling Strikes makes ranged DPS bad, too.

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Originally Posted by ForbiddenMonk

so you're telling me, a dps ripping aggro from Tank mid fight is not the top dps atm?

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I would say yes, considering that the top DPS could have used quelling strikes to mitigate enmity. SMN can also be top DPS without being at the top of the hate list since a portion of their combined damage is from two sources. Not even to mention scenarios whereas there are multiple mobs so the tank doesnt focus on just that one target. Even a good tank can fumble their rotation and lose hate.

With so many reasons that dps can get hate, to think it is exclusive of their dps is ego driven and has very little basis in reality.

Personally, i am all for parsers. Especially if it is from SE, since they can properly track the DOT effects and all the other little things that the external parsers mess up on.

I have to question though for those who are against parsers: Is it that you dont perform your best on purpose, is it a lack of skill or are we not supposed to notice that your wasting our time spirit bonding instead of using the best gear you have???

Aggro and DPS is just apples to oranges when you use one as a metric for another, definitely not precise enough, ever (plenty of points being brought up as to why). Pulling out my fruit analogy again, I can't use bananas to tell me how ripe my oranges are. I don't use Omen as a replacement for Skada, so why the hell would I do it here?

So you're telling me its absolutely possible to parse at 10 dps as a dps for the entire savage encounter and still be high on aggro

since dps and aggro are apples and oranges right?


PROVE IT

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Originally Posted by ForbiddenMonk

So you're telling me its absolutely possible to parse at 10 dps as a dps for the entire savage encounter and still be high on aggro

since dps and aggro are apples and oranges right?


PROVE IT

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Reading comprehension: Did I ever say or imply what you are claiming? What I am saying is that it's a poor judge of how much DPS is being contributed. You can't use a metric used to track your aggro when you include aggro dumps and focuses as an accurate determination for DPS. Both are fruit, both are still different.

I think a personal parser is a great idea, but I think the median 80% of players would still put up...well, let's just say, less than mediocre numbers (I'm being pretty generous when I say "mediocre" too, my BLM doing thunder and blizzard 1 should not be out-dps'ing other BLMs...). I think a group parser is extremely important for end game play however, and especially given the current state of Savage design, is really the only way to improve and progress.

tl;dr: I'm all for personal parsers, but group parsers should exist for content where it's necessary to progress.

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Originally Posted by ForbiddenMonk

So you're telling me its absolutely possible to parse at 10 dps for the entire encounter and still be high on aggro

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Seriously? ok:

1. Hit the mob once then cast flash/medica2 repetitively
2. hit the mob once and have the tank focus on a different mob
3. be a nin and hit the mob once, let the tank get some hate then switch mobs and then use the enmity transfer ability (i dont remember the exact name)

Can it be done, yes. Is it going to happen often, no.


Friendly reminder: Tanks are always at the top of the enmity list and are rarely the top dps.

The important take away is that enmity and DPS amounts are not interlocked together. If a person wants to make an accurate statement, then accurate data is required and we cannot have that without having the fights parsed (either by SE or external). Without data everything is assumed, and will often not be accurate.

If you really want some proof of this, search the forums for smn dps posts when 2.0 was just released. None of the parsers could capture the data right, so everyone thought that the job was broken. Turned out that once the data was corrected, the mentality changed...

"I can't use bananas to tell me how ripe my oranges are"

Reading comprehension: I cant use ___ to measure how ____ are

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Originally Posted by ForbiddenMonk

So you're telling me its absolutely possible to parse at 10 dps as a dps for the entire savage encounter and still be high on aggro

since dps and aggro are apples and oranges right?


PROVE IT

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See, no one's really saying they're 100% seperate, but they are moreso saying that it's a one-way street.

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It's possible to have High DPS and Low Aggro (Depending on what you consider 'low')

It's not possible to have Low DPS and High Aggro, unless you're a healer/tank.

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That's exactly, unrestricted, what they are trying to explain. I do agree - if no one is using their Threat Reduction, /and/ you don't have a SMN/MCH to compare against, the aggro is a good way to gauge how much DPS someone did. But if the BLM is out-DPS'ing the Dragoon, uses Quelling Strikes, and the Dragoon never uses Jump? The DRG will naturally have more threat than the BLM (and not all fights can be optimized using Elusive jump for movement, so there's a number of situations where this happens to me.)

You cannot compare agro to DPS. Period. Different classes generate agro at different rates from my experience.

Was skimming over some other posts. Regarding dragoon's elusive jump. If a dragoon is having to use Elusive Jump because the tank lost agro, there are probably some larger issues at hand. Every scenario is different but some of the ones I can think of off hand are: The tank's agro generation is inadequate (yes blame the tank for not holding agro. no excuses, even on openers.), dragoon is attack the wrong target(?), main tank died and the OT hasn't generated agro. Now there are an infinite amount of different scenarios out there in which a DRG could inadvertently get agro but elusive jump isn't necessarily used for that. In fact I see the agro halving part of elusive jump more as a crutch for helping out an undergeared tank in a dungeon. In a raid scenario (especially a static group) it's most useful for positioning quickly to INCREASE DPS. Not reduce emnity.

Good, so don't use aggro to determine your DPS.

That said, while raiding or dungeoning ANYTHING could happen. Know what your skills do and how and when to use them is what is most critical. Using Elusive to move out of an AOE is waste, but what if you were stunned or slowed? Then it's a DPS gain to not die. But what could you have done to avoid the stun? OR oops the tank died, do I want to elusive jump? Probably not. I probably want to hit all my defensives and then sprint to kite the mobs away until the tank returns. Once the tank returns maybe then elusive in order to help restablish agro.

tl:dr
agro is irrelevant to dps (abilities reduce agro, classes generate agro at different rates, people may die, etc etc etc)
dps is irrelevant to good playing ability
good playing ability includes knowing when and how to use ALL of your abilities in various situations

Also, parsers are used for more than just calculating DPS. They're also used to look at who was using what buffs when. Like, if your Dragoon buddy keeps dieing to the missles on A1S, before you go screaming at the healers it's nice to know, did he have blood for blood up? did he use any defensives (Foresite, Keen Flurry, Second Wind)? Or what if no one caught who had that lightning debuff on T10 and wiped the raid? Parsers are invaluable. And using parsers doesn't mean you have to be a jerk about it either.

[QUOTE=Deviant1;3314055]Seriously? ok:

1. Hit the mob once then cast flash/medica2 repetitively
2. hit the mob once and have the tank focus on a different mob
3. be a nin and hit the mob once, let the tank get some hate then switch mobs and then use the enmity transfer ability (i dont remember the exact name)

Seriously?
Apparently Im being too vague. Lets take t13, there is no way in hell a dps can finish the encounter with 10dps and still be high on aggro ranking on BOSS aka Bahamut.

Im speaking on the dps class and its aggro, not any other class

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Originally Posted by ForbiddenMonk

Seriously?
Let me dumb it down real quick. Apparently Im being too vague. Lets take t13, there is no way in hell a dps can finish the encounter with 10dps and still be high on aggro ranking on BOSS aka Bahamut.

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Sure there is.

Everyone else died and was resurrected, causing that 10 DPS to be collectively the highest threat generated. Mr. 10 DPS didn't die, so he now has the highest threat. Over a 13 minute encounter (it's what, 8 minutes of actually hitting bahamut? CAn't remember how much downtime you have during his jump and adds phase) the dragoon effectively did 4,800 damage.

Everyone being resurrected, even at 500 DPS right before the end, would still have to hit it for 10 seconds before it died. So let's say that it died 6 seconds after raising everyone. Bam. 10 DPS is highest because threat was dropped according to threat arguments.

[QUOTE=Eidolon;3314090]Sure there is.

Everyone else died and was resurrected

Thats a cheap shot

But still their aggro dropped because their dps dropped

I don't like parser's never have since how people use them.
A lot say no they want to improve and help them, that's a big lie in itself, your idea of helping and improving is kicking, also why would people help if they don't want to explain a fight then direct them to youtube.

I have seen the person die who had the parser blame a person, first by putting them down over and over until the person says something like worry about your own job, then they kick them, then when replaced still dies and then wants to blame someone else, once this happened in my cousins party he see's someone using parser talking down on party he boots them continues and wins fight, cause he don't want no drama he just want to finish the dungeon not hear some dude talking about how someone is low DPSing and the put downs.

I could see this game falling apart if they actually allowed this, cause then people would attack and kick and most of those players would probably start making set party's or quit cause of the drama.

I don't know how many times I have seen it, I even been kicked several times even if I have beaten the fight before without problems or know the dodging guy said your dps is 10 less than mine then he kicked me, when the healer wasn't able to dodge either the guy who accused me.

I look up his name found how both were in same FC and yeah so they chose me to pick on, I flag up and what do you know we win.

Other than that I see it all the time people attacking who use parsers and I hope that SE never allows it inside a party so that people can really abuse it.

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Originally Posted by ForbiddenMonk

Seriously?
Apparently Im being too vague. Lets take t13, there is no way in hell a dps can finish the encounter with 10dps and still be high on aggro ranking on BOSS aka Bahamut.

Im speaking on the dps class and its aggro, not any other class

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If a DPS finished the encounter with only 10 DPS, I'm assuming they spent 90% of the fight licking the floor. If it's a farming party, hopefully someone has the good sense to kick them out of it. To be fair, I did hear a rumor that floor tastes like strawberry.

If you'd chosen a less hyperbolic example, I probably wouldn't be responding so facetiously. :3

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Originally Posted by Fendred

Designing the combat so they are not needed is the better solution.

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Yeah, overhauling a 2-year-old game's combat system is obviously the better solution compared to giving everyone a tool to measure DPS.

I did A1S yesterday with most people from my static and 3 PF DPS. We kept dying to Faust at 12% consistently. We had no way of knowing who was underperforming/how to improve group DPS because we had no way of measuring DPS, so instead we had to call it quits. A parser would have helped with this.

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Originally Posted by Odett

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Help like how kick people? They paid their subscription and is allowed to fight that fight, he got into the fight because the requirements were met.

You have to understand even if your DPS is greater that doesn't mean your dodging skills or healing skills or mechanics of the fight are going correctly so even if you were to kick the lowest person with the DPS you are not going to win.

Plus it almost sounds like you want to try and get someone with better attack damage to win you the fight and does all the work for your team you kick till that is accomplished then never return to the fight cause well if you went through all that work to win something's a problem. It aint the dps.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Help like how kick people? They paid their subscription and is allowed to fight that fight, he got into the fight because the requirements were met.

You have to understand even if your DPS is greater that doesn't mean your dodging skills or healing skills or mechanics of the fight are going correctly so even if you were to kick the lowest person with the DPS you are not going to win.

Plus it almost sounds like you want to try and get someone with better attack damage to win you the fight and does all the work for your team you kick till that is accomplished then never return to the fight cause well if you went through all that work to win something's a problem. It aint the dps.

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If his abysmally low DPS means the content is not getting cleared, then he is wasting the time, and thus interfering with the enjoyment, of 3 or 7 other players. Those players are also paying a subscription... 3 > 1, 7 > 1... So yeah...

And when the content is getting cleared? NOBODY GIVES A DAMN about low DPS then! And those who do are just idiots and would be the same no matter if they have a parser or not.

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Originally Posted by sirDarts

If his abysmally low DPS means the content is not getting cleared, then he is wasting the time, and thus interfering with the enjoyment of 3 or 7 other players. Those players are also paying a subscription... 3 > 1, 7 > 1... So yeah...

And when the content is getting cleared? NOBODY GIVES A DAMN about low DPS then! And those who do are just idiots and would be the same no matter if they have a parser or not.

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As like the forums, nobody is going to agree with a parser because it causes problems in the community and SE doesn't want problems in the game and then that goes back to the forums with more complaints.

Cause I don't agree with the parsering I see the attitudes of people who use them, its a video game people need to stop cussing and judging people how they play the game and calling them stupid and other crap because they can't beat a virtual monster.

That isn't anyones right to do, you are saying its justified you are wrong.

People have to dodge aoe's also do you guys also count that some just cant attack, blm's casting gets messed up or dps have to move out of way or there is a stack of aoe dmg on ground they cant get around or one person dies and is weakened so they die easy to dmg.

as I said parser's should not be allowed in game. gives people poor judgement over others causes problems.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Help like how kick people? They paid their subscription and is allowed to fight that fight, he got into the fight because the requirements were met.

You have to understand even if your DPS is greater that doesn't mean your dodging skills or healing skills or mechanics of the fight are going correctly so even if you were to kick the lowest person with the DPS you are not going to win.

Plus it almost sounds like you want to try and get someone with better attack damage to win you the fight and does all the work for your team you kick till that is accomplished then never return to the fight cause well if you went through all that work to win something's a problem. It aint the dps.

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Ok, let's get started...

"Help like how kick people? They paid their subscription and is allowed to fight that fight, he got into the fight because the requirements were met."

Paying for your subscription only allows you to log into the game when it is up. H.ave you even entered Alex Savage? There is no set iLv requirement.

"You have to understand even if your DPS is greater that doesn't mean your dodging skills or healing skills or mechanics of the fight are going correctly so even if you were to kick the lowest person with the DPS you are not going to win."

Faust is a target dummy fight. There is no dodging. Healing skills don't matter if Faust enrages. He has to be killed before he enrages. Hence the term "DPS race".

"Plus it almost sounds like you want to try and get someone with better attack damage to win you the fight and does all the work for your team you kick till that is accomplished then never return to the fight cause well if you went through all that work to win something's a problem. It aint the dps."

...what? That was a bit hard to understand, but to answer your question, having a parser would allow us to see where everyone stands DPS-wise. This would let us know if we need to get better gear, or if someone is underperforming, find out why and see how we can improve our group DPS instead of asking "what went wrong?". By now I can tell that you haven't done any raid content when it is viable because one dps cannot carry a group. My static is not at the level of carrying other players. We need everyone to put forth a good amount of effort so we can clear these fights. We have no space for someone wanting to get carried.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

As like the forums, nobody is going to agree with a parser because it causes problems in the community and SE doesn't want problems in the game and then that goes back to the forums with more complaints.

Cause I don't agree with the parsering I see the attitudes of people who use them, its a video game people need to stop cussing and judging people how they play the game and calling them stupid and other crap because they can't beat a virtual monster.

That isn't anyones right to do, you are saying its justified you are wrong.

People have to dodge aoe's also do you guys also count that some just cant attack, blm's casting gets messed up or dps have to move out of way or there is a stack of aoe dmg on ground they cant get around or one person dies and is weakened so they die easy to dmg.

as I said parser's should not be allowed in game. gives people poor judgement over others causes problems.

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It is concerning that you apply everyone who uses a parser under the same category of personalty. You go on to say that people are wrong for cussing/insulting others, which is true, but don't think about the fact that you are acting in a very prejudice manner. (Which I hope you can agree is also wrong).

I personally agree with parsers, as do many, which negates your "nobody is going to agree with a parser".

This game mechanically needs one, there are too many situations where it's necessary. People get around that by using 3rd party stuff and don't talk about it, but that's pretty lame in my opinion. Content is designed around tight DPS checks.

Additionally, parsers do a great job of pointing out who messes up on mechanics. Often someone's DPS is low because they keep dying and messing up mechanics. Personally? I go from 1100 to 700 dps often when I die before the wipe on my progression runs.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

As like the forums, nobody is going to agree with a parser because it causes problems in the community and SE doesn't want problems in the game and then that goes back to the forums with more complaints.

Cause I don't agree with the parsering I see the attitudes of people who use them, its a video game people need to stop cussing and judging people how they play the game and calling them stupid and other crap because they can't beat a virtual monster.

That isn't anyones right to do, you are saying its justified you are wrong.

People have to dodge aoe's also do you guys also count that some just cant attack, blm's casting gets messed up or dps have to move out of way or there is a stack of aoe dmg on ground they cant get around or one person dies and is weakened so they die easy to dmg.

as I said parser's should not be allowed in game. gives people poor judgement over others causes problems.

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Parsers are just a tool. Tools can be abused sure, but they are still useful! Parsers are incredibly useful for many things, be it personal development, challenge, figuring out the issue in content that's not getting clear, etc...

FFXIV has one of the most mature and nice communities on the MMO market. I am fairly certain that more than 90% of people would not abuse parser, and those that would could easily just be punished for abuse... There is no reason to deny a useful tool to 90% of the community because of 10% of rotten apples...
I have really done A LOT of DF runs. A LOT! And I have met very few people who commented at all about someone else's abilities/skill/etc. Like in many hundreds of runs I have met maybe a dozen. Sure I don't count people who just instaleave when something goes wrong, but those are not really abusers in my eyes.
For example today I did Trial Roulette, got Titan HM, like 3 or 4 people were new. We wiped pretty quick on our first try because of some stupid mistakes, even on my part, nobody complained. Second try the second healer got pushed off right after the second jump, people kept dying to bombs/AoE, and I had to soloheal. We cleared with an average of 2 DPS being dead ever since the Heart phase. Did someone complain? Did someone push blame? Did someone get angry? Nope. The only comment about personal skill was: "Gj Elyza, thanks" from one of the tanks.

As for your "you have no right to judge others!":
1) You are wrong, every single person has the right to judge others based on their behaviour/skill/etc and we do it all the time. What you are not allowed to do is to abuse people because of it.
2) Tanks and healers are already getting judged openly all the time, and they don't get any slack cut. They mess up, and they called out, maybe even kicked. While DPS can just stand there autoattacking and nobody will say a word.


Parsers should be allowed in the game.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Help like how kick people? They paid their subscription and is allowed to fight that fight, he got into the fight because the requirements were met.

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I pay my subscription too. So do the other six people in the party. If one person's low DPS is holding the group back and they can't or won't improve, then yes the only solution is to kick them. Why disband when one person is the problem?

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You have to understand even if your DPS is greater that doesn't mean your dodging skills or healing skills or mechanics of the fight are going correctly so even if you were to kick the lowest person with the DPS you are not going to win.

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I think you meant "you may not win," which is entirely true. The thing is, people that use parsers don't just look at numbers and go "omg these are low." They have to take into account the structure of the encounter itself. Faust tends to have very high numbers on parses because the best strategy is to have one tank take the boss and all the adds and everyone else go to town. That means that any AoE ability is picking up ticks on all the adds. Add to that the fact that Faust is basically a striking dummy that hits back and you end up with some really inflated DPS numbers. On the other hand, fights like T9 tend to have lower numbers on account of downtime while you're waiting for mechanics to go off (iron chariot, megaflare, divebombs, etc).

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Plus it almost sounds like you want to try and get someone with better attack damage to win you the fight and does all the work for your team you kick till that is accomplished then never return to the fight cause well if you went through all that work to win something's a problem. It aint the dps.

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Or maybe we just want to get someone that performs equal to or better than the people we already have.

One DPS can't carry in Savage, but you do need all four performing well to clear it.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

As like the forums, nobody is going to agree with a parser because it causes problems in the community and SE doesn't want problems in the game and then that goes back to the forums with more complaints.

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Completely untrue. I'd love to have an ingame parser.

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Cause I don't agree with the parsering I see the attitudes of people who use them, its a video game people need to stop cussing and judging people how they play the game and calling them stupid and other crap because they can't beat a virtual monster.

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If someone uses a hammer to hit someone else's hand, does that mean we should outlaw hammers even though they're incredibly useful? That's precisely the mentality you're taking with parsers here. A parser is a tool, nothing more and nothing less. Unfortunately, stupid people have the same access to tools that the rest of us do; the difference is that they usually use them incorrectly. Even if I am parsing and someone's DPS is less than stellar, I see no need to confront that person about it unless it's holding us back from completing content. Even in that case, there's ways to go about it without cussing and berating people. I usually just tell them that it's not working out, and they may need to do some tweaking on their gear or some research into their rotation.

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That isn't anyones right to do, you are saying its justified you are wrong.

People have to dodge aoe's also do you guys also count that some just cant attack, blm's casting gets messed up or dps have to move out of way or there is a stack of aoe dmg on ground they cant get around or one person dies and is weakened so they die easy to dmg.

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Again, people that know what they're doing with a parser take these things into account. BLMs aren't expected to put up as much DPS in movement-heavy fights, but honestly a good BLM can do really well once they get familiar with an encounter and know where to position themselves for different phases. Deaths, however, are not an excuse for low DPS. If someone is dying repeatedly, it is a problem that needs to be addressed. What's killing them? Is it a healer issue or do they need to learn to dodge? Maybe there's a mechanic we don't fully understand. Parsers also show you what healing spells were cast on who, how much overheal there was, how long the encounter lasted, what skills hit who, and how many times everyone died.

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as I said parser's should not be allowed in game. gives people poor judgement over others causes problems.

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This to me is the equivalent of sticking your head in the sand and pretending DPS problems can't be easily fixed.

Yeah that's you, I am talking about others who agree with me.

What you all fail to understand is as long as there are people like me who don't want a in game parser there will be no in game parser and I am not talking about the training one they are going to be releasing.

I am talking about the one you guys use to judge people on how they play, some people would agree with me on this subject but I am done explaining cause I don't want to say something that might get one of you upset and report me on forums and try to get me temp banned.

Cause some people get bent out of shape even for small things like this. So cya.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

What you all fail to understand is as long as there are people like me who don't want a in game parser there will be no in game parser.

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Are you for real? There are people who didn't want old content nerfed and it still happened.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

They paid their subscription and is allowed to fight that fight, he got into the fight because the requirements were met.

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With this mentality, vote kick should also be removed, because you know, that troll you wanted to kick has paid their sub as well. Sorry but this comment fails so hard it's unbelievable it was even used. No one can stop you from accessing certain content, that's what you have paid for, it's just that players have the right to choose who they play with.

That mentality is like demanding a world-tier group to take you in their group because you have paid for the content and are entitled to play it.

Because of the fact that dps checks do exist in the game I do think that they are needed in the game. However, the only place they should exist is in encounters with said checks. Anywhere else it'll do more harm than good simply because the ratio between people that want to play optimally vs people that just want to play out don't care as long as the content is cleared leans pretty heavily away from the optimal players.

This way, it will give people the tool they need to meet certain mechanics the game throws at them without affecting anything for the bigger audience.

As a side note (and I really don't mean to insult anyone here, it's just my opinion only) you people that play for progress and find it fun are the reason why mmos have stopped focusing on the community and why the sandbox genre just isn't successful with mmos anymore. Talking about wiping continuously as a waste of time when playing a game (and an mmo at that) IIIIS a waste of time and nothing you ever accomplish in a game will ever mean anything (friendships and marriages excluded, those are everlasting <3) and we all need to start acknowledging that.

Again, don't mean to insult anyone. Everyone has different play styles and my or your preferences are not more important than someone else's. I'm sure we all enjoy this world that is ff14 otherwise we wouldn't be playing it.

So parsers for situations where they're needed, not for when it wouldn't objectively help (no, speed running and rushing through content is not objective, that's subjective) and everyone is invited for ice cream at my house, free hugs at the door too <(^_^)>

In my opinion an in-game parser is a very good idea (at least with the option to display your own dps, for research and self improvement purpose).
Last time in fc chat we were speaking about the use of a parser. We finally ended up with that analogy : when you are raiding, it's like you are driving a car. Now for example Faust in A1s could be a speed limitation telling you "if you don't drive at least at 110km/h then you can't enter this road". That's where parsers are useful, how can you know at what speed you are driving without something displays you the number?
Then okay some ppl will say "you'll know that your dps is good when you'll beat the fight". Ok, but sometimes that means waiting months to earn more gear, while the problem isn't the stats of your armor but your skill rotation. You can still try to blindly test different rotations, but how can you know if one was better ? Are you driving at 30km/h on a highway because you don't know if you are pushing enough on the pedal ? (if so, i'm glad to just meet you in a game and not in a real car)
I am pretty sure 99.9% of the persons raiding in that game are looking on google for guides about what is the Best in Slot gear for their job, what is the best between spell/skill speed and determination/crit etc... How do you think all that theory-crafting is made ? SE never released the algorithm used for the calculation of your damages depending on the det/crit/ss, so ppl had to try by themselves, using different gear, spending hours looking at the numbers of their parsers on different situations to end up sharing their ideas with other players about what they think is the best solution to improve your gear/rotation etc...
So, ok, some ppl are bullying players in dungeons trashtalking about dps numbers and things, but for the ppl who are trying to help the community, sharing their results about BiS and skill management (and i can tell you, it takes hours to see a difference between two rotations because you first have to master the new rotation at 100% to really see a benefit) we should all be happy if a legal way to mesure your dps was added in the game.