Skills/spells you see no reason to use since you got to 60?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miscreant

And you still haven't learnt what Eye for an Eye does?

---

the majority of the playerbase as no idea how it works :x how often i have seen people using it on a DD or Heal with low life to "shield" them xD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gallus

Costs less mana, is instant cast and might eventually outdamage stone III due to it's DoT nature and how spell speed works. If you cast PoM and do Aero, it should do more damage than stone III (supposedly, haven't tested it myself :P).

---

okay, it is MUCH cheaper, that's correct and you can cast it while moving. but even with spellspeedbuild it does less damage than my stone 3. and PoM will not increase the damage, because PoM no longer increase your spellspeed. it shortens only the casttime now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tint

the majority of the playerbase as no idea how it works :x how often i have seen people using it on a DD or Heal with low life to "shield" them xD

---

It's so sad, if used right it's one of your best mitigation abilities and so many people overlook it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gallus

Why so obsessed with weaving?
Broil is 170 potency. Ruin is 80 potency. How much time are you gaining by weaving a non GCD skill/spell or buff? At most like 0.5 seconds. That's 1/5 time of an entire 2.5 seconds cast. Let's assume for a moment though, that weaving a non GCD skill/spell or buff saves you an entire second, you are still not even saving the time of half of a cast. Why on earth would you prioritize doing an 80 potency spell in 1.5/2 seconds over a 170 potency one in 2.5 seconds?

---

Now take in to consideration the duration of a whole fight and how much those 0.5 seconds add up, now think about double weaving, with a Ruin II you can get off an Energy Drain and a Swift Cast before you put down your Shadowflare. Or you can double weave an energy drain and Aetherflow, it's all situational though, but there are time when you priorities Ruin II over Broil.

Also, Ruin II + Energy Drain is 80 + 150 = 230 potency in one GCD v.s. Broil is 170 potency

If playing as a DPS should help you learn anything it's that disrupting your GCD leads to a DPS loss, obviously healers have to also consider well timed healing, but a good Scholar contributes to the groups DPS and should consider all of these.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marcu18

I know I'm not the best but I'm not a bad healer.

---

Keep telling yourself that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marcu18

Eye for an eye, dissipation, deployment tactics, sustain, miasma 2 lol!!!

---

The only ones agruably useless on that list are sustain and dissipation. Miasma II has a pass, but the spell is a bit underwhelming I'll give you that. However, deployment tactics used properly I can assure you is a powerful tool (situational, but powerful).
As for Eye for an Eye, you don't know how it works so I'll explain it <.<. You apply a buff to a member that lasts 30 seconds (normally your tank), every time that person is hit there is a 20% chance the enemy will get an eye for an eye debuff, and when that happens (basically always), that enemy does 10% reduced damage for the next 30 seconds. To sum up, you can almost treat eye for an eye like a 10% damage reduction buff on your tank, except it won't have instant effect, you'll start noticing smaller hits after 5-10 seconds (this is why applying it right before a tank buster is dumb).

@Miscreant,

Maybe I am mistaken but the airy if you use it, has a Healing power increase of 40 % + your own. If you remove it to gain yourself 20 % you kind of *lose* 20 % effectiveness of potential Healing, on top of it, you need to resumon your fairy, either by using swift cast + call fairy, or by stop walking call your fairy with the risk of being one shotted. If you use swift cast + call fairy you spend mana + an important skill that shoudl be used for things far more important then that.

But maybe I have a biaised perception of it...just I wont use that skill again. This is the beauty of this game, different people use different ways to finally achieve same goal if let to do it

Mei

You would have to save 2.5 seconds via weaving in each Ruin II to make up for every broil you don't use, not the case, so I can't see your point.

Broil + non weaved energy drain + Broil is always going to be superior than Ruin II + weaved energy drain + Broil.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gallus

You would have to save 2.5 seconds via weaving in each Ruin II to make up for every broil you don't use, not the case, so I can't see your point.

Broil + non weaved energy drain + Broil is always going to be superior than Ruin II + weaved energy drain + Broil.

---

I think she was more of saying if you had 2 oGDCs ruinII could be nice, also if you need to uncleric and heal it puts the dot up so theirs that. It has uses just peghole uses it sounds. Many Dps are all about weaving which might be the mindset also.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeiUshu

snip

---

So Dissipation is a funny one, you're correct your healing output with the fairy is better, but when you have no mana, no Aetherflow and no Bard your fairies healing alone is not greater than your solo healing output with mana and +20%. Thats the type of situation that Dissipation can be used for healing, it's very niche.

But I prefer to use it for DPS, I will blow up/absorb my pet in parts of the fight where my fairies healing isn't needed and use those Aetherflow stacks for Energy Drains, I usually blow up/absorb Selene early on and switch to Eos in progression making sure I pop Fey Wind before Dissipation, it's a boost to my DPS and in situations like A1 Savage where you want to do as much damage as possible before the second Oppressor comes it can help, if every Energy Drain hits, you have just added an extra 450 potency of attacks and replenished your mana.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gallus

You would have to save 2.5 seconds via weaving in each Ruin II to make up for every broil you don't use, not the case, so I can't see your point.

Broil + non weaved energy drain + Broil is always going to be superior than Ruin II + weaved energy drain + Broil.

---

I'm not saying I always do Ruin II + Energy Drain, I do do Broil + Energy Drain too, but its situational, got one Aetherflow stack left and a new Aetherflow to be popped, a Ruin II is better as I can get off the Energy Drain and Aetherflow before my next GCD starts, same with a Ruin II + Enery Drain + Swifcast.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justinjarjar

I think she was more of saying if you had 2 oGDCs ruinII could be nice, also if you need to uncleric and heal it puts the dot up so theirs that. It has uses just peghole uses it sounds. Many Dps are all about weaving which might be the mindset also.

---

Maybe I worded it badly but that is basically what I'm trying to say :)

Knew I should of not have read this, and would only end up getting annoyed

How people can say convert for blm is never useful is beyond me, and is damning indictment of how p!ss poor some people are at this game.
There are others, but maining blm, reading that in particular hurt my soul

@Miscreant,

Yeah in that I can agree, although you and me are on different Spectrum I consider my primarely position as a healer and as such attacking is done with either broil or Ruin, which I would never sacrifice my selene for allowing me a 20 % Healing with the difficult it would result in doing it just to attack. Although, when I tested that thing, I used it at the very end of the fight, that point I will agree, where I gain 20 % Healing + can attack fast and efficient...while maintaining at least for some seconds a level of efficiency relatively good, knowing that i can survive some couple of minutes more without my fairy..but only at the very end...bah just me..I love différences..

thanks for the convo

Mei the crazy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justinjarjar

I think she was more of saying if you had 2 oGDCs ruinII could be nice, also if you need to uncleric and heal it puts the dot up so theirs that. It has uses just peghole uses it sounds. Many Dps are all about weaving which might be the mindset also.

---

Broil 180 potency. Ruin II 80 potency. Let's assume ruin is casted on 2.5 seconds and broil is casted on 3.5 seconds (not by a long shot, but let's assume for a moment you gain an entire second from weaving).

Broil = 51 potency/second.
Ruin II = 32 potency/second.

And I'm really, really, really being generous with an entire second here. The entire point of weaving stuff is optimizing damage, if you don't, there's no point in weaving, why is it so hard to understand...

SCH: I never use Dissipation when on battle until now. Still can't find the emergency moment to use it.

SMN: Tri-Bind for PvP stuff.

AST: Stella is just for PvP stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gallus

Broil 180 potency. Ruin II 80 potency. Let's assume ruin is casted on 2.5 seconds and broil is casted on 3.5 seconds (not by a long shot, but let's assume for a moment you gain an entire second from weaving).

Broil = 51 potency/second.
Ruin II = 32 potency/second.

And I'm really, really, really being generous with an entire second here. The entire point of weaving stuff is optimizing damage, if you don't, there's no point in weaving, why is it so hard to understand...

---

You know what I mean by double weaving right? or are you just going to ignore the main point of it all, your right, if it's just a an Energy Drain Broil is better, but Broil + Energy Drain + Aetherflow or Broil + Energy Drain + Swiftcast is a big disruption to your GCD.

But sod it, I feel like I'm talking to a broken record here, lets just put it down to dick measuring, how much do you parse on A1 Savage?

Before I reach A1S I will have to work on my gears...when I am at that level and if parsers are allowed officially maybe I will let you know then, maybe.

For the rest, I dont go about like you at all, and still believe for me dissipation to be useless...no arm done if you believe it to be good.

Mei

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeiUshu

Before I reach A1S I will have to work on my gears...when I am at that level and if parsers are allowed officially maybe I will let you know then, maybe.

For the rest, I dont go about like you at all, and still believe for me dissipation to be useless...no arm done if you believe it to be good.

Mei

---

Oh no sorry, that wasn't meant for you, I didn't disagree with your opinion, I even up voted you :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zfz

I wish these less used older spells could somehow be used to "link up" the level 60 rotation for when we have to move. For example having Fire4 give 10 seconds instant Freeze, and let Freeze extend Enochian for 10 seconds or something like that. Or having Thunder jump to every target within 5m when the main target it hits is frozen in place.

---

I actually really like this idea. And I feel that it fits the overall theme of black mage which seems to be "fire = damage" "ice = utility". In a perfect world, you would be able to stand in one spot and light things up, but when mechanics happen (like they always do) ice and thunder could shine by preventing your dps from plummeting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miscreant

You know what I mean by double weaving right? or are you just going to ignore the main point of it all, your right, if it's just a an Energy Drain Broil is better, but Broil + Energy Drain + Aetherflow or Broil + Energy Drain + Swiftcast is a big disruption to your GCD.

But sod it, I feel like I'm talking to a broken record here, lets just put it down to dick measuring, how much do you parse on A1 Savage?

---

I usually don't double weave, this game's animations are clunky, and for some reason when I try it, sometimes my animation jumps off but gets cancelled, if I try to say energy drain and immediately after atherflow and then broil again, this happens many times:

1 - Aetherflow animation jumps off but is cancelled halfway through the animation and doesn't happen.
2 - Broil is cancelled by aetherflow (server delay).

As for this disruption you speak of, I only understand it as either: a DPS loss or not.

I parse 250-300 on A1S depending on if I let my WHM enter with his opener. I parse 1100-1200 on A2S on the first pulls, but it drops considerably after the two widows pull, you know, when that single jag doll appears, only to be followed by 4 more on the next pull (impossible to DPS there), at that point, I'm around 700. On the last pull, I'm somewhere between 450-500.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gallus

snip

---

I get where your coming from with the delay it's really tricky to get right, and sometimes it does mess up, I find the Ruin II + Energy Drain + Swiftcast usually goes off smoothly into the Shadwflare but Ruin II + Energy Drain + Aetherflow to be a gamble.

I usually parse around 900 as the second Oppressor spawns and finish the fight somewhere between 350 (my worst) and 385 (my best)

I haven't got my A2 clear yet as our Tank fell ill as Savage opened, because of it we only started raiding this Saturday, had 2 A1 kills so far and are really close to A2 though.

But anyway to tie up our disagreement, I'm not saying Ruin II is better than Broil by any means, just that in those certain situations it has it's purpose. If you still think differently then we can agree to disagree :D

Blizzard and Thunder is used as a filler while waiting for mana ticks. Which one to use depends on if you have Thunder ticking and the duration remaining, and your current mana.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sacerdos

Isn't Convert part of the optimal BLM opener?

---

Yes, and it's used again at three minute mark when all your cooldowns line up. Mechanics withstanding, of course.

Well I was a big fan of Ruin II in 2.0. I'd use it every time to weave in my autoattacks and the occasional energy drains (which are now irrelevant in 3.0 because the mage's autoattacks haven't scaled properly...).
Not much stuff to weave other than as you've said swiftcast + shadow flare, but really, even there, it's kind of arguable, because using swiftcast to shadow flare on a tricky phase only for someone to fail and die makes me feel like a dick lol (e.g phase 2 add phase of A1S). As for stuff like virus, eye for an eye or sacred soil, I tend to want them on very specific moments, so I try to land them appropriately rather than using them on the middle of a Ruin II... also, it's not even cost efficient mana wise, and our spells' mana cost has raised dramatically, so that's another thing to consider. Basically, I have replaced Ruin II for broil, it's not even on my hotbar, so I guess we can agree to disagree lol <.<.

WAR: storm's path.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sicno

WAR: storm's path.

---

Not sure if serious or sarcasm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sicno

WAR: storm's path.

---

I guess you think defiance is useless too?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sicno

WAR: storm's path.

---

So' ya want'ta be a troll, mon? Ya come back when ya don't smell like me raptor's leavin's.

I am a Bard
I hardly ever use Wide Volley now...very situational with the changes that were made.

There's a lot of bad in this thread.

Wide Volley.
If you're spamming this for AoE, you're doing it wrong. Same potency as Quick Nock, higher TP cost. I guess if you need to AoE from far away? But I cant think of a situation where you would need to off the top of my head. Also if you're spending more time chain-casting Quick Nock/Volley instead of spamming RoD and dots - you need to work on your rotation.

Barrage/Hawk's Eye were always useful. Barrage was even more amazing pre-HW.

Emergency Tactics is for heavy healing when the shield will be useless for the next 30s.

Stoneskin is still situationally useful because GASP you can stack it with shields.

Thunder II/CONVERT/Scathe - all useful.

Blizzard II is SMN/SCH AoE filler.

Feint is BRD/MCH movement filler.

Don't be bads.

Op you say stone 3 is useless well don't ever play whm again I main it and use it a lot I get 1653k dps with it and it comes in handy when I need to use it a my pt loves me

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FaizeD

Emergency Tactics is for heavy healing when the shield will be useless for the next 30s..

---

If you have over 30s before the next damage hits (and thus the shield would be useless) it's better to just fill up using physick, it's WAY cheaper.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saerie

Not sure if serious or sarcasm.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PArcher

I guess you think defiance is useless too?

---

No, I really mean it. I don't have much trouble surviving, or at least nothing that some well placed CDs can't solve, so I keep up storm's eye instead. And yes, I do use defiance, sometimes switching stances.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sicno

No, I really mean it. I don't have much trouble surviving, or at least nothing that some well placed CDs can't solve, so I keep up storm's eye instead. And yes, I do use defiance, sometimes switching stances.

---

Do you savage? Cause path (and delirium, if no mnk) is extremely useful there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PArcher

Do you savage? Cause path (and delirium, if no mnk) is extremely useful there.

---

Nope, not yet. I guess when I do I'll have to use it, just like any other wall I've encountered that made me reconsider my playstyle in the past. I should have clarified I'm not doing much endgame content yet :P sorry for that. Now, on the 50 to 60 path I never felt the need to use it, hence why I haven't even bothered trying it again.

I feel like NIN is one of the few with a short list of abilities with no use. In a way we could ignore Hyoton because it is a product of Ten/Chi/Jin so it's not exactly an ability on our list we ignore purposely just rather one we don't execute.

With that in mind it really just comes down to "Hide" because the execution of the skill is made irrelevant once you obtain Suiton.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Airget

I feel like NIN is one of the few with a short list of abilities with no use. In a way we could ignore Hyoton because it is a product of Ten/Chi/Jin so it's not exactly an ability on our list we ignore purposely just rather one we don't execute.

With that in mind it really just comes down to "Hide" because the execution of the skill is made irrelevant once you obtain Suiton.

---

I do wish Hide could be executed during combat for a simple hate reduction, just so that it had a use.

...is Tri Bind still a thing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Khanscott

...is Tri Bind still a thing?

---

Does it exist? Yes. Is it useful? Still no.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PArcher

Fracture - Used at some point during a triple Fell Cleave combo (usually as the last GDC of Berserk) it does a ton of DPS. And its still decent used normally (especially if you can't target your main target for a little bit at a time, AKA adds) Also...TP issues, on WAR?

---

WAR is more reliant on TP than Paladin, and I run out of TP on Paladin as is. Overpower is quite costly, and is our principal means of AoE aggro (sure we can use Flash, but 3 casts and it's bye bye MP). The main reason I bring up the TP cost though is that it's more expensive than other skills, and really doesn't add much damage to make it worth the extra cost. We're talking about 300 potency overall, which sounds nice until you realize that it breaks combos and is only 20 potency less than Butcher's Block.

I do agree it's useful when you're switching targets for a while, but only by a margin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PArcher

Holmgang - You don't raid, do you? Holmgang is a lifesaver when used properly, or even as a normal CD for a tank killer.

---

I can count the number of times I've seen Holmgang used in a raid on one hand. You want to know why? Because it's HORRIBLE. In fact, I'd argue raids are the WORST time to use Holmgang because it roots you to the floor.

Being stuck in place for 6 seconds can be utterly fatal in even casual content, never mind raid fights where there are plenty of instant kill mechanics waiting to wipe the smug grin off your face, Holmgang or not. Holmgang is not a skill that can easily be used tactfully, since you're still taking damage regardless. You just get left with 1 HP, and no one wants to be left with 1 HP when Holmgang ends.

I'd genuinely be interested in hearing if there's a real tactical use of Holmgang, and not just a panic button for insta-death. I've certainly never come across it in all my play so far.

A1 savage you can holmgang every other tankbuster and use equilibrium to restore hp. So you can just go full deliverance before it and use other cd's to compensate.
It is very very useful ability.

As a SCH I basically never use Ruin 1 unless I'm doing low level content. Broil is just better than it in every single way. (Ruin 2 is still nice for the instant cast + blind though.)

Sadly our level 60 skill Dissipation never sees much use either, but it's more or less a last resort button.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemuria

fracture and holmgang

---

Umm.. Isnt fracture 100 initial +20*30sec= 700 potency? Unless i miscount the math..

I always use holmgang to take ark morn alone.. And that is real tactical use of holmgang back when ark morn hits really hard.. And for recent content, i usually holmgang double atma+ tapasya+ blinding blade in ravana extreme

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaitlynOfOz

Agreed, tempered will is great for countering bosses you like to push you back towards frsyj, or suck you in towards the center of things (ie more death). Again another purely situational skill, but that doesn't mean it has its uses for a glorious save.

---

A3 Wash Away so you dont need to reposition boss after KB for example, its funny that SE actually arsed to hotfix it as it used to go trought TW when alex was relased. And in PvP its godly due all binds/heavies flying around.