Why people says AST is bad?

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Originally Posted by Mclyde

Yea and if we agree with the complains of the self-proclamed "Dark knights lovers" this job would become the new Op class and the first comer could well-manage it.

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I fail to perceive the correlation between this and the price of tea in Garlemald.

Fake difficulty through noobtrap mechanics does not make the Job shine any brighter.

OK, I decided to jump into this thread since it seemed to replace the old 70 page thread of AST discussions lol.
I am a career healer, WHM in 1.0, SCH in 2.0, and now AST in 3.0. That said I am definitely gonna keep my SCH leveled up to fall back on. I love AST but it is definitely more work to get stuff done and is less equipped to pull a group out of the fire. AST really requires that the party knows what they are doing and avoiding what they can but there is little reward for asking for that kind of skill. WHM or SCH can be in a party and recover from the screw ups. I do agree that AST need some buffs and I get all the arguments about math and cooldowns but wanted to add some stuff.
1st off, and this came up in other threads, ppl talk about SCH skills as tho they have all of them all the time. About 6 Lustrates in a row or using Dissipation for more Aetherflow or how they have Fey Illum for healing buffs and Fey Wind for haste/DPS increase! If you fire off 6 Lustrates then you have no Indom for AoE heals, you have no Sacred Soil. If you Dissipate you have no Fairy Embracing or any of that Fairies skills if you need them. If you want Fey Illum up for healing increase then you don't have Fey Wind. Yes, they are all OPTIONS but if you ever needed those options all at once as your party is probably boned anyway. I get that the math shows Fey Wind is overall better than what an AST brings, I don't doubt it, the cards need serious work, but a SCH might not even have Selene out. I know there are elitists here saying stuff like all good SCHs use Selene anyway then talk abotu Fey Illumination in the same breath. Fact is you will see Eos in alot of content, especially new 8 mans when ppl are learning since she gives a wider margin for error. Which means no Fey Wind.
Again, not saying AST are fine by any means, just trying to refute some of the SCH god-mode talk.

There are also ppl who talk about how much more effort it is for the same effect. If you wanna argue about utility the jobs offer, thats one thing. But as far as effort goes, if a player wants to personally put in more effort for the same effect then that is their prerogative. I find AST fun, I played a ton of SCH in 2.0 and I wanted a change. If I want to sweat my balls off healing on AST and we all live and finish the run then so what? People here talk like we all need to pick a job that gives the best results for the least effort. Granted, I believe putting in more effort should give better results and AST isn't there yet (hopefully they will be) but I am having fun and doing the content fine and will hopefully be ready when AST gets buffed into Flavor of the Month healer lol.

That said, here is a copy/paste of my ideas for card system changes (as I believe the thing that makes us unique is what needs to be changed/fixed, not change everything else to make us a copy of another healer):

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Originally Posted by SmackyHuggins

I agree with this and feel like our potency should be lower than the others in favor of the card system we bring. But that card system needs a review. I have been following this thread for for a bit and have wanted to reply with some ideas I have been knocking around in my head.
If you look at a job with a similar gimmick, such as Corsair in XI, they could pick their buffs, but the RNG aspect was the potency. COR could "roll the dice" after they picked a buff to try and make it better or possibly worse if they busted. Our roll of the dice is simply what buff we get so I feel the reward for the risk of not knowing what you are going to get should be that every card is useful on anyone and our decision is based on the current situation and the only reason to Royal Road or Spread is to try and set up a good combo or anticipate a part of a fight as a bonus, whereas right now we use them to sit on one of the few "good cards".
These are some ideas I had for the card effects and abilities:
-All cards should have the same duration. The fact that 3 have a shorter duration is proof that SE knew they were better or more useful and they felt the need to limit them. If you are going to make us play with RNG then they should all have the same duration, whether the 20secs ones are shortened (not what I would choose lol) or the 15secs ones are lengthened (yes please!).
-DRAW: Alot of ppl are clamoring for reduced cooldown, which I can get behind, but I think an interesting mechanic would be a way to reset the cool down similar to River of Blood for Bard, perhaps a % chance on Crit heal or something?
-BOLE: Earth, Damage reduced by 10%. I think this card is fine as is.
-ARROW: Wind, Attack speed increased by 10%. I think this card is fine as is.
-SPEAR: Ice, Ability Recast reduced by 20%. Currently only works if the ability is used while under the effect of the card. It has been said that it is a bug and that it should shorten recasts already running. If that fix comes through then I believe this card will be fine.
-SPIRE: Lightning, TP cost of weaponskills reduced 20%. This card is the one no one wants and I think that is a problem. The fact that this card just gets RR'd or Shuffled should speak volumes. The TP reduction should be rolled into Ewer as a resource cost reduction card and Spire should get something more in line with its element. I am thinking Crit Rate increase which would include healing crits. This would add a level of strategy to decide to give it to a melee for the DPS, a tank to help with hate (thru increased dmg) or ourselves to boost healing as well as possibly proc the reset on Draw proposed above.
-EWER: Water, MP Cost reduced 20%. This should have TP cost reduction rolled into it making it a blanket resource reduction card. Or possibly MP/TP regeneration as some ppl have proposed. This would again aid in the only useful instance or TP reduction right now which would be mass pulls as it would allow both melee and casters to go all out if is AoE'd as well as a healer to keep ppl up during this by helping everyone's resource on one card.
-BALANCE: Fire, Damage done increased 10%. I think this card should also be a boost to healing done. The card would effectively buff whatever the player's main stat would affect, ie Dmg for melee, magic dmg for a caster, and healing potency for healer. This would allow for a buff useful to anyone but again we must pick our targets for the moment we draw it.
Alot of these changes are also to address some of the missing links in AST arsenal such as a boost to healing done (which, if on a card could be given to another healer in an 8 man) and MP issues.
-SHUFFLE: I know alot of ppl want it eliminate the chance to get the same card again. While I feel that pain I think the very notion of returning a card and shuffling the deck should have the possibility to draw the same card. But I would not be against it lol.
-SPREAD: I know alot of ppl want it usable out of combat. I think this might be a little OP but there are ways to fudge it now (unlike RR a card stays in Spread through zones and entering DF) so they might as well just give it to us lol
-ROYAL ROAD: My only complaint with RR right now is that it is used on the next card so if you have a card in spread with a RR effect you want you stop Drawing effectively eliminating our gimmick. A solution may be to have a way where where we use a card then choose to RR the effect after. An example would be: Draw Arrow, RR, now we have the AoE option, Draw Bole, at this point would could RR Bole for Potency increase or use Bole, if we use Bole RR would flash similar to a combo'd move and we have a short time to decide to apply RR effect to the Bole we just used, if we do the RR effect overwrites the old one (potency increase, duration increase, or AoE with current duration transferred). This would make us think on our toes. If we don't use it within the time frame we maintain the RR effect for next Draw.
-SECTS: I am of the camp to allow us to switch in combat. I believe this would raise the skill ceiling on the job and make us more versatile.

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It doesn't matter if you're the best of the best, AST will still fall behind compared to the other two healers, by a lot more than you seem to think.

It's not a matter of "if you try harder, you'll do just as good as the others." AST is weaker in every way, even when you're super professional. If you're super professional, you'd be contributing far more on the other two healers than on AST. AST also has a higher skill floor than the other two, so if you're not super professional, then it's going to be abysmal.

That's just how it is.

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a SCH might not even have Selene out.

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They will if they're a good Scholar, which is the case you're trying to explain with AST too. If you read around a bit, you'd know that Dissipate is EXTREMELY situational and people never use it.

Your attempt at saying SCH is worse than people think it is, is just false. It is quite good, and far better than AST. With myself having a 60 SCH and 60 AST, I can see it very easily, and the others that have both agree.

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Originally Posted by Crevox

It doesn't matter if you're the best of the best, AST will still fall behind compared to the other two healers, by a lot more than you seem to think.

It's not a matter of "if you try harder, you'll do just as good as the others." AST is weaker in every way, even when you're super professional. If you're super professional, you'd be contributing far more on the other two healers than on AST. AST also has a higher skill floor than the other two, so if you're not super professional, then it's going to be abysmal.

That's just how it is.



They will if they're a good Scholar, which is the case you're trying to explain with AST too. If you read around a bit, you'd know that Dissipate is EXTREMELY situational and people never use it.

Your attempt at saying SCH is worse than people think it is, is just false. It is quite good, and far better than AST. With myself having a 60 SCH and 60 AST, I can see it very easily, and the others that have both agree.

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First off, I am not saying SCH is not as good as ppl say, it is ridiculously good. I love SCH. I am going to keep it leveled along with AST so I have both available. SCH has been my 1st love since ARR launched. What I said is that ppl are spreading misinformation about it. There are posts in AST threads about SCHs having 9 stacks of aetherflow at their disposal for 9 Lustrates in a row when that would never actually happen, you are not gonna dissipate and lose the fairy in a situation where you just burned 6 stacks of AF, hell burning 6 stacks in a row means you are doing terrible. The ppl who say this stuff are just like the ppl who think they will get perfect Draws every time on AST and that is the norm that should be considered. Ppl are taking a vertical slice of SCH under extremely ideal conditions and saying it is something that is possible all the time in any fight but then trashing on ppl who talk that way about the cards. The cards suck and need alot of work, but they can't do the same thing to make their argument. Ppl in this thread have flat out mentioned Fey Wind and Fey Illum in the same breath as tho they are always available. If Selene is the end all be all, then you don't get Illumination. If you use Illumination then wasted Swiftcast to get selene out you have a 2 min cooldown on Fey Wind, they are tied together. There is no magic way to 'stance dance' between the fairies and get everything. And trust me, plenty of ppl will be using Eos when the new raids come out for the margin for error as they learn them.
I played SCH at 50 for 2 years, I will be the 1st to say SCH is better than AST. You are trying to make points that I already know. I flat out said they are more work for less reward and that it is a problem. The 'gimmick' of AST needs a serious balance, you should be able to be a viable choice for any content when right now ppl would take WHM or SCH over them. I play my heart out on AST just to keep ppl alive where I can let my fairy take the wheel and DPS on SCH. AST relies way too much on the party being perfect with few ways to save a run if it hits the fan. I think the ability of a healer to really save the day when shit goes wrong is something to look for and AST is seriously lacking there. I don't believe this is tied to lower potency or even their abilities (tho some do really suck) It is about the one thing that was supposed to make us different, the card system, but different didn't mean better or even equal. AST should be a max effort, max reward job. Instead it is a max effort sub par reward job. The skill of the job should be quickly identifying situations and how to use cards, they should be more useful for everyone as I stated above. Right now it is about hoping you don't get Spire 9 times in a row and spam curing.

The real key to everything is that AST's buffs just need to be stronger, and maybe change how some of them work in general to truly be useful.

I say this because the RNG involved means you are extremely UNlikely to get the buffs you want, when you want them, so when you DO get them, that buff should so something IN-SANELY useful. Right now, they provide slight DPS padding at best and can be completely useless at worst.

And here's a crazy idea: how about the AST's emergency buttons COME from the cards? Considering the current emergency buttons are so bad, if AST could provide raid-saving buffs through the cards, then the RNG AND lack of emergency buttons would suddenly make sense.

I'm not exaggerating when I say that the AST buffs should FEEL overpowered because there was only a 17% chance that they'd get the buff the wanted at the right time.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

I'm not exaggerating when I say that the AST buffs should FEEL overpowered because there was only a 17% chance that they'd get the buff the wanted at the right time.

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I'm with you there. The card buffs either need to be borderline brokenly powerful or reworked so that each card provides a some significant benefit that is applicable to most situations.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

I'm with you there. The card buffs either need to be borderline brokenly powerful or reworked so that each card provides a some significant benefit that is applicable to most situations.

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Would anyone be okay with us being "the bard of healers" if that's the case? I can't imagine any other way of making the cards enticing.

I just think the phrase "...Then the AST drew a ______ and saved us from a wipe." needs to be a sentence which could actually feasibly be said by someone.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

I just think the phrase "...Then the AST drew a ______ and saved us from a wipe." needs to be a sentence which could actually feasibly be said by someone.

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Someday... maybe

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

I just think the phrase "...Then the AST drew a ______ and saved us from a wipe." needs to be a sentence which could actually feasibly be said by someone.

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In this reality, for every person that said that phrase, there'll be 100 that said "If only the AST drew a _____, he/she could have saved us from a wipe" :D.

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Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

In this reality, for every person that said that phrase, there'll be 100 that said "If only the AST drew a _____, he/she could have saved us from a wipe" :D.

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I feel like that's one of the design problems with these cards. To be worth the hassle(4+ buttons), they'd need to be strong enough that they dramatically affect the group. If that WAS the case, then we'd need to be balanced around these cards, and thus open to wiping due to just poor RNG.

I've just finished levelling AST & WHM to 60 and trialled them both in Ex. Ravana and I thought I'd join the conversation and add some points relevant to raiding. (Some sch play for 2.0, but more as an alt rather than main)

Lets begin by saying that WHM is very strong at the moment and this fight (and bismarck) seem attuned to WHM healing - the aoe damage (rolling medica 2), the predictable tank hits (Tetra) and very limited healing on the move (though assize can cover the limited moments where this is required). A WHM couldn't really ask for a better fight - they even have time to dps.

With this in mind AST (and even SCH) are always going to feel comparatively weaker, with AST being the weakest of the three.

The major downside of AST in comparison to WHM and SCH are its inconsistency and its unique ability...the cards.

Cards are great, they are fun, they require strategic thinking in a fast paced environment and they create a relatively unique experience every time.

On the other hand, cards are difficult to use effectively in their current state. Take Ravana extreme. Imagine you go into the fight for the first time. Whilst you’ve watched a couple of videos and read the strat, there are things you only begin to understand when experiencing the fight. For example, there are significant periods of ‘down time’ in this fight where Ravana leaves the arena. Unless you are fully prepared with the timings of these abilities you are most likely going to waste your buff times – there were plenty of times where I could have wasted an spear/arrow(royal road) + balance combo (when RNG was nice) without realising that the DPS couldn’t actually DPS for the next 40 seconds.

This makes AST significantly weaker than both WHM and SCH. Selene own her own accord has the ability to consistently roll buffs on the raid – Whilst you may lose half a speed or spell buff due to mechanics, there will be opportunity to benefit from this buff again. In comparison, there is a chance that AST may never roll balance again for the remainder of that encounter. A WHM doesn't need to buff per say but has the ability to 'save the raid' with strong heals through unpredictable damage and abilities.

The second problem with cards is the illusion of strategy. Being the mini-whm, mini-selene in raid I feel it important to never ever, ever waste a card draw/road cast. There are times however where I felt annoyed that I didn’t have more options. I want to benefit from each card, as all cards are great - but sometimes RNG doesn't let that happen at all and you don't have the right cards at the right time.

Why can’t AST “hold” up to three cards to allow for strategic planning of cards that obtain the most benefit at specific times (e,g bole and balance)?

Why can’t AST stack royal road to make up for the bad draws? (Both of the same and different cards, it might actually make drawing multiple spires useful). (Stacks in combat only)

Why does shuffle allow you to redraw the same card?

In my opinion, AST is a fine pick…for fights you already have on farm. A good WHM/SCH main will probably enjoy playing AST to change things up and have a relatively unique experience each pull. AST on the other hand would not be my go to pick for progression due to its inconsistency, its inability (or maybe underwhelming heal potency) to heal through stupid mistakes on progression that stop you from...progressing, and some broken/unusable abilities (channelling spells with tiny radiuses?? really?)

I would very much love if Bole gives us invincibility status for 30s and balance 50% attack increase for the same duration. That is acceptable!

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Originally Posted by Rajeme

I would very much love if Bole gives us invincibility status for 30s and balance 50% attack increase for the same duration. That is acceptable!

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/sarcasm

I hope

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In my opinion, AST is a fine pick…for fights you already have on farm.

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The problem is that SCH's Fey Wind still provides a larger DPS increase over the entire fight than AST, and SCH does more DPS with spells than AST as well, with better mana efficiency.

Even in this case, the other healers are a better choice.

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Originally Posted by Crevox

The problem is that SCH's Fey Wind still provides a larger DPS increase over the entire fight than AST, and SCH does more DPS with spells than AST as well, with better mana efficiency.

Even in this case, the other healers are a better choice.

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When a fight is on farm it doesn't matter who you take, you'll clear it regardless - this is my main point/reasoning behind that comment. Healers should have fun too, and for some healers playing their alt astro will challenge them for a bit when farming becomes stagnant and relatively easy to heal.

Edit; Just to make it clear - farming with a static or a very reliable group of people.

Leveling AST now, have it only at 50 but have WHM and SCH at 60. So far, dungeons are terrible - no major healing output for major pulls (the emergency heal is basically mandatory for very large pulls) and even when you get a break to pump out DPS on big pulls there's not much you can do sub-52. Why they made Gravity a level 52 skill is beyond me, they're just punishing ASTs in High Roulette.

Looking ahead at the 52-60 skills (Gravity, Malefic II, Time Dilation, Collective Unconscious, and Celestial Opposition), I don't see anything that'd affect how an AST would heal in a coil environment, so I think I have a feel for it, and I have to say, I think it's just a woefully average, barebones healing kit that looks like it belongs in 2.0. I don't even think this kit would have done well in low iLVL FCoB;

- Super weak Regen, basically the greatest spell in WHM's arsenal toned down for the sake of being toned down. 100 potency is so shitty. You can't put this on a tank to give yourself breathing room for mechanics or to DPS, plus you can't enhance it to be stronger than it is. WHM can put down DS Regen and that with Embrace spam would EASILY cover auto attacks for a long time T1-13, but I don't even think Enhanced Benefic + Embraces would even match weak autos. 3.0 WHM can put down Asylum for Pete's sake and have almost 200 potency Regen from DS + 100 potency from Asylum, plus often a DS M2 on the MT from a mechanic for 65 potency per tick from that too, before talking about Embrace + actual healing. At best AST has 150 from Enhanced Benefic + Enhanced Helios ... what can you really do with that in the meta? Whatever you CAN do with that, WHM would be able to do it sooner, longer, and easier.

- Card RNG. Even with Shuffle, I can't tell you how many Ewers, Spires, and Boles I get consecutively. I don't even have to compare it to Selene to note that it's frustrating to do party content and miss out on 1/3 the cards actually getting raid use. These cards in general are great for stacking an individual's parse but for raid DPS, the cards can't even make up for the difference in healer DPS from bringing WHM + SCH instead.

- I can't say for sure about DPS as I'm only level 50 but I'm just not seeing the system working out. What's a downside to me is the lack of oGCD attacks - while it doesn't matter since there's a decent amount of potency within the attacks themselves, it would matter for burst periods. When AST attacks, it puts up DoTs or does its 200 potency filler, which isn't so competitive in a burn period where SCH can do up to 9 Energy Drains if he goes all in, and WHM can pump out Fluid Aura + Assize + stronger burst Stone IIIs. The flow of AST DPS, put up DoTs and use filler, is so barebones and not very versatile IMO, compared to a SCH Baning his DoTs or a WHM using Presence of Mind and pumping out some serious Stone III or Holy burst, temporarily on a level close to an additional DPS.

- Undeniably the worst aggro system of the 3 healers. Having a Quelling serve as your enmity reducer is okay in concept, but it's attached to your MP regeneration which typically takes precedence over aggro management, and the CD on it is too long to necessarily use it when you want, how you want it. WHM gets Shroud as a dump, SCH doesn't need a dump because so much of its heals come from a separate source. I can't really say how good or bad AST MP seems to me as I'm only 50 and obviously haven't done any high end content with it, but I will say the options AST has for MP regen don't appeal to me. SCH gets Aetherflow and Energy Drains; WHM gets Shroud, Assize, and C2 procs. AST gets its version of Shroud, and RNG Ewer (which should usually get Royal Roaded IMO) ... as is I don't see some passive way of playing or modification AST can do to save MP like a WHM fishing for C2 procs and then saving it for when it needs to, or SCH blowing stacks on Energy Drain excessively to regain MP. AST's MP is held by the BRD's balls and just not overhealing too much, it looks to me.

- The lack of healing variety, I could see it being problematic. I touched on this above but, basically AST can do the basic WHM tools, a Medica, a Medica II, a Regen, a C1, a C2, and a mini-Lustrate once every 40s. This is basically it, plus Disable (which is arguably the most unique and strong tool AST has). If content simply calls for basic heals + M2 for mechanics then AST will be ... competent for the encounter, but compare this extremely basic toolkit to what WHM and SCH can do:

WHM:

- All the abilities of regen stance AST, plus C3, plus generally stronger potencies.
- Assize, insta-300 potency Medica on a 90s CD.
- Asylum, 800 potency ground regen field that can cover the entire team, 90s CD.
- Tetragrammaton, mini-Lustrate. Benediction, mega-heal in case of emergencies.
- Divine Seal. Take all the basic GCDs and make them do 30% more healing output. 1/3 uptime, and with HoT snapshotting it can be closer to 60%~ uptime on Regen/M2.
- Again, Regen is just so strong from WHM. It's a game changer.
- E4E, Virus. E4E is one of the most valuable skills in the game and the more users of it in the party, the merrier. Virus is similar to this but due to Anti-body only one or two core Virus users are enough typically.

SCH:

- Adlo. This is the best single target GCD heal in the game due to how it's hard to overheal with it, it can prevent one shots in the near future if the tank is out of CDs, and that crit potential to make it absolutely broken.
- Sacred Soil. It's been boosting raidwide survivability for mega damage spots selectively since launch and has a niche but sometimes extremely helpful place in the SCH's moveset. While AST has this too, it's only usable in the otherwise inferior shielding stance right now AST shouldn't be caught dead in.
- Embrace. Even toned down as it was at level 60, it's stilly incredibly strong, between letting it roam loose to pick up low HP comrades, to forcing your fairy to spam Embrace without stop on your tank to allow generous helpings of DPS, it is a free, constant heal.
- Lustrate. Good SCHs don't blow all their Aetherflow stacks on ED until their next Aetherflow comes back in case of emergency Lustrates, and hoo boy is Lustrate strong.
- Of the 52-60 skills, Indominitability (400 potency Medica insta-cast, cost of a mere Aetherflow stack, 30s CD) and Deployment Tactics (spread Galvanize and E4E, 2m CD) are arguably broken skills and I predict them to be major parts of strategies in Alexander Savage. Indominitability is ridiculously strong IMO.
- Quick CD E4E, Super-Virus.
- While Selene is normally used, if you want to talk healing output a SCH using Eos is virtually unmatched in raw healing output, in effective terms. 20% MDEF buff to the party, 20% extra healing to the party, a Medica II for free which can be Roused. Selene also has an AoE Esuna now, the only healing skill of its kind in this game - I expect it to have more than one application in future raids, that's for sure.

From what I've played of all 3 healers, I have a miserable time with AST compared to the utter versatility and power (DPS, healing, and the ability to put forth both effectively) of WHM/SCH. The cards just don't do it for me; I believe the intent of AST was to ensure it wasn't on the same healing level of WHM/SCH ON TOP OF giving great buffs out, but they really missed the mark on both angles IMO, especially since AST looks to be low end DPS itself. I do think some massive buffs are incoming and hopefully how it heals less than potencies will be changed, it's just a matter of if it's before Alexander progression, or, more likely, after it :(

Just repeating myself, but simply make the card cooldown 15 seconds and we'll be happy. That means there's always a card in play! It's not much I'm asking!

i really want spread out of combat and shuffle on a 60s cool down. also the mp and tp reduction skills have a little regen added to them (drop reduction to 15% or 10% for this add a 20 potency regen for instance). increasing heal potencysto match would be nice too its clearly overkill to have them lower. the lack of tools on the class make up a large enough difference from the other two healers.
i really like the class so far (not 60 yet) but i can feel it needs some buffs to be on par with the others.

My least favorite part of AST so far? That benefic/helios need a SEPARATE spell to get the bonus of your sect. I really, REALLY wish they had just folded the regen/shield into the base spell. It seems stupid to have to take up more hotbar space.

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Originally Posted by Crevox

There is no increase in throughput with instant cast. The GCD is the same. :|

All it does is slightly alter the rhythm of the heals you are spamming if you're not using it for its mobility. In the rare case the burst is desired, Swiftcast exists.

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You're trying much too hard to be unsatisfied. Not everyone is delusional enough to think the class is flawless, but what this person is describing is something I personally enjoy about the class too. Instant cast, front-forwarded healing is different and is enjoyable. And there are uses to being able to cast it on the move, as well as have the 'chant' portion skipped even if you ultimately are locked by the recast timer.

Altering the rhythm is a good thing. This rhythm is called gameplay. And mentioning Swiftcast at no point makes me want to suddenly make Benefic's passive have hidden and effective-- yet boring-- power/efficiency like White Mage. If I wanted it to be more like White Mage, I could simply play a White Mage.

By using this mechanic, I'm free to use Swiftcast for something else. Like say, Aspected Helios; a spell with a legitimately longer cast time with a positional requirement to where I feel more impact/satisfaction for using Swiftcast.

You can't just reach for power and ignore play patterns completely. Give the class throughput or power, especially in Nocturnal; clean up cards to make up for their lack of personal dps opportunity-- clean up Spire ESPECIALLY since it feels often like an impactless card. "We won this encounter because the Astrologian used Spire on me", said no one ever-- this can be said about almost every card, but at least you can feasibly make claims that a Royal AoE Balance/Arrow helped on a 'meh' geared Bismarck EX Core, or throwing Ewer on the WHM during AoE phases, or coordinating Spears on Spread with a Ninja friend got more oGCDs/Ninjutsu/Trick Attacks out for the raid. There's potential, even if they're not tuned right. The gameplay is there.

Clean up usability for Spears in non-premades, give a few number tweaks on the other cards certainly but don't screw with elements that work for the class. Its an awesome stutterstep for a healer.

Sorry, but I have to agree that Enhanced Benefic II is quite bad. Insta-cast proc at random is not particularly useful and is more likely to trip you up than to be truly beneficial.

I'd take the boring Freecure proc any day since it is benign even if you don't really need it, whereas Enhanced Benefic II makes you watch for an active proc to ensure that you don't attempt to precast with it on.

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Originally Posted by jgg1988

Hello!
My ast is only 53 but that is enough for see his potential. In my opinion AST dont need a buff/nerf, is fine right now...

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Healed as both AST and SCH, could tell you immediately that AST felt weak, at almost the same iLvl gear. MP ran out quicker, and recovering from large AOE damage was more difficult, the main issues i see.

I've all done all content available as both SCH and AST and the job needs reworking. Yes, you can accomplish your HEALER role successfully as AST currently is-- but that's pretty much it. I also find that AST is very dependent on how skilled the other healer is. I even prefer SCH/SCH to SCH/AST because 60SCH can pump crazy amounts of heals and mitigation fast now, where as I was having to spam 3-4 GCDs -trying- to pick people up on phases like RavEX back to back stomps.

TLDR: Can you HEAL current content as AST? Yes. Can you bring SUPPORT as the role is intended? Maybe (RNG). Can you be more effective and bring more to the table as WHM or SCH instead? Definitely.

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Originally Posted by chumsy

Healed as both AST and SCH, could tell you immediately that AST felt weak, at almost the same iLvl gear. MP ran out quicker, and recovering from large AOE damage was more difficult, the main issues i see.

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This I will agree with. AST is adequate for most healing, but the gap is apparent when you compare its performance in situations requiring high healing output for any sustained period of time to that of WHM or SCH.

The lack of powerful healing CDs and oGCD heals is very real, and heaven help you if you're trying this in Nocturnal with its very low healing output.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

Sorry, but I have to agree that Enhanced Benefic II is quite bad. Insta-cast proc at random is not particularly useful and is more likely to trip you up than to be truly beneficial.

I'd take the boring Freecure proc any day since it is benign even if you don't really need it, whereas Enhanced Benefic II makes you watch for an active proc to ensure that you don't attempt to precast with it on.

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See I don't get this as an argument because it isn't even remotely true. You don't have to 'watch' for an active proc to avoid to precast with it because its very much the same 'situation' as the old Fire 3 munching. If you're precasting/queuing your next action/spell, and almost anyone is except during a cooling phase be it SCH popping a really strong Adlo and going back to cleric, or doing a Cure II and queue/going back to Cure I, you won't use Benefic II's proc. It'll just be there and shiny because you already started chanting.

You would have to intentionally interrupt it, then cast it, losing at most 0.5's seconds worth of benefit if you wanted that proc to launch right now.

Call for buffs all you like. It needs them. Creating fake problems with the parts of the kit that works and makes it distinct is silly though. Its almost getting comical about how many complaints these boards have about homogenization, and then their suggestions for fixing the classes is making spells literally identical 1:1. The class probably could use a form of efficiency, since using Ewer on itself is a waste of its utility that it brings to the table, but copy/pasting Benefic to be exactly like Cure isn't the answer. We don't need a second White Mage with a Star Motif.

Except that you don't automatically chain heals together like you do DPS spells, and not knowing when to expect an instant Benefic II can indeed be an annoyance. In any case it's almost never of actual use.

I won't go so far to say that insta-cast procs of Benefic II are useless, but they aren't nearly as useful as their free-cure proc counterparts. It's nice, but not really useful to MP efficiency or throughput; I often forget it's even there. At least with free-cure, it's always useful because it increases MP efficiency.

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Originally Posted by GideonHighmourn

I won't go so far to say that insta-cast procs of Benefic II are useless, but they aren't nearly as useful as their free-cure proc counterparts. It's nice, but not really useful to MP efficiency or throughput; I often forget it's even there. At least with free-cure, it's always useful because it increases MP efficiency.

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The one good thing I will say about Enhanced Benefic II is that it's handy if you suddenly have a DPS to heal immediately and just so happen to have a proc ready. The randomness and highly situational benefit just make it very underwhelming.

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Originally Posted by GideonHighmourn

I won't go so far to say that insta-cast procs of Benefic II are useless, but they aren't nearly as useful as their free-cure proc counterparts. It's nice, but not really useful to MP efficiency or throughput; I often forget it's even there. At least with free-cure, it's always useful because it increases MP efficiency.

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As a footnote, I do agree with this completely. I just don't see it as a 'problem' that needs to be fixed. Its a strength/utility that's different from someone else's. They probably need help with being more efficient (ESPECIALLY Nocturnal, among other things Nocturnal would need) but I don't see the point of stripping out functioning flavor/play.

Been running constant dungeons to get my pld to 60, just about there. I've seen many sch and whm now who are having a terrible time handling the last boss of vault and other random pulls. I only mention this part cause everyone before was going on about astro not being any good for this fight. Hardly any of these sch/whm dps, max ive seen was about 100dps though a dungeon. The astro's on the other hand are kicking ass, spamming gravity, buffing our group. Im sad when I see a sch/whm now.

Im running neverreap/frac doing 300-350 dps now as i170 ast, so that shits any talk of ast not being able to dps. That is also without cards benefit. This is obviously things that dont require acc, but both our DoT's have no accuracy requirement so I have no worries come alex time.

I just like to throw these things in here cause I'm sure alot of could-be astro's are looking at threads like these and decide to go sch/whm instead. Astro needs slight tweeking and nothing more, the heals are plenty, the potency of our insta cure is ridiculously high if you let the tank get real low before using it. I just dont see any need for a buff to heals themselves, just focus on card tweeks.

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Originally Posted by Krixus

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The job functions great in a small party and in shorter fights such as what you see in dungeons. Many opportunities to buff one of 4 people making a considerable difference. There's also no need to self buff as astrologian to sustain yourself in short fights. It's when taken in to raid content, with tank busters and high raid-wide aoe damage the job falls short. Buffs must be used to maintain mana. Heals are weaker with fewer tools to bring a group back from mistakes. Also less mitigation tools like virus or E4E.

Our insta cure is the lowest potency ability of all the classes. Scholar has lustrate and indomitability and emergency tactics Whm has benediction, assize and tetragrammaton. A 400 potency heal is nothing. It's our only emergency heal and really needs to be used on CD to help combat the mana issues.

To be fair, Essential Dignity is the strongest thing this side of Benediction if correctly timed.

That doesn't make the most prominent criticisms of the class' overall power and utility less valid, though.

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Originally Posted by Krixus

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I'm 59 on SCH and I've been doing vault with ease so those WHM and SCH you're probably running into are bad. This place is such a massive cake walk for SCH it isn't even funny. The last boss is also a joke for SCH because I don't have mana issues on this class like I do on AST when I want to do dps. If I even think of doing gravity between pulls, I'm just out of mana and I don't even do respectable numbers for how much mana I'm burning per GCD. My Regen is pitiful so that means less uptime to DPS.

I DPS on bosses in my expert runs with ease and I easily do over 400 DPS because ASTs single target DPS is actually good (only slightly weaker than SCHs until they start Energy Draining). I've been doing 600+ DPS on grouped pulls and 350+ on bosses since Aery on SCH and it's only going to get better when I can throw on my i180 gear. And please stop mentioning these random cards. Your card benefits are actually worse than Selene's Fey Wind (I always have Selene out). Your Expanded Arrow card is actually weaker than Selene's Fey Wind (In 8 man) unless you blow a 2 minute cooldown on it. Only then, your expanded card gets marginally better. Even then, you're dealing with RNG. You're dealing with RNG and your cards aren't even powerful.

I love AST but it's absolutely frustrating running through these dungeons yet again and pondering on why SE made a healing class so damn weak in every. single. area. I was so hyped for AST since December 2014; The date they announced it. Now? I'm almost turned off of from it because I feel handicapped for absolutely no reason.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

To be fair, Essential Dignity is the strongest thing this side of Benediction if correctly timed.

That doesn't make the most prominent criticisms of the class' overall power and utility less valid, though.

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Except lustrate is 600 potency with a chance to use 3 times every minute and tetragrammaton is 700 potency. It's nice to have something but when competing for a static position it really falls short with offsetting our numerous other handicaps. It should be buffed or placed on a shorter CD along with numerous other buffs the job needs.

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Originally Posted by MidnightTundra

I love AST but it's absolutely frustrating running through these dungeons yet again and pondering on why SE made a healing class so damn weak in every. single. area. I was so hyped for AST since December 2014; The date they announced it. Now? I'm almost turned off of from it because I feel handicapped for absolutely no reason.

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This is really me as well. I loved the who idea of a time mage, support healer. Was so excited I leveled it to 60 and worked hard to learn all the nuances of the job. Then I started raiding and the amount of time I spent just sustaining myself with card buffs was so frustrating it just ruined the job for me. It defeats the entire purpose of having a support class when all their reserves have to be used just sustaining themself at the expense of any potential benefit the job may bring.

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Originally Posted by MidnightTundra

I love AST but it's absolutely frustrating running through these dungeons yet again and pondering on why SE made a healing class so damn weak in every. single. area. I was so hyped for AST since December 2014; The date they announced it. Now? I'm almost turned off of from it because I feel handicapped for absolutely no reason.

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This is also where i am at with the AST job. For a healer, it is lacking in some major departments, non more so than its ability to recover a raid from situation that occur whilst progressing through the raids. Its emergency heal is pretty meh as well. I want this class to be good and viable for progression raids, but sadly at the moment it just isnt there. WHM and SCH sadly make a mockery of it in terms of healing and the contribution to raid dps. I wish they would have made AST a unique healer in terms of its healing abilities, rather than mashing WHM and SCH together in one class and then reducing potencies and have no healing buff cooldowns.

All that said, OMG <3 Synastry.

Well anyway now Alexender Raid is up!
And for the first and second Alexander Raid "normal mode" at least AST has no worries to have since that's really... Easy xD