How is BLM in new expansion?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sayori

That's simply cause both of these fights aren't movement heavy. Seriously, in bismarck phase 2 i can just stand on the edge and turret everything down while picking my nose. Ofcourse you'll have good dps. Now put blm with some aoe dropping monstrosity and look at that dps plummet.

---

Well, once you get accustomed to the fights, you can plan for the AOEs.

The last time SE buffed Black Mage they were so op that Summoner had no purpose in the game. There were sub par Black Mages out dpsing above average Summoner's by 50dps while Black Mages who knew what they were doing out dpsed Summoner by 80dps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

The last time SE buffed Black Mage they were so op that Summoner had no purpose in the game. There were sub par Black Mages out dpsing above average Summoner's by 50dps while Black Mages who knew what they were doing out dpsed Summoner by 80dps.

---

Yeah let's not talk about that utility summoner provides.. Come on.
Also a good summoner could outdps most black mages. Sure, there were mp issues but they fixed that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sayori

Also a good summoner could outdps most black mages. Sure, there were mp issues but they fixed that.

---

That depends entirely on the fight.


And if you are talking about 2.X content, then no, assuming same skill level, BLM was always better in FcoB which I am sure is what Akiza was talking about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

That depends entirely on the fight.


And if you are talking about 2.X content, then no, assuming same skill level, BLM was always better in FcoB which I am sure is what Akiza was talking about.

---

Yet SMN was better in Turns 1-7 and Turn 9.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Numenor1379

Yet SMN was better in Turns 1-7 and Turn 9.

---

It was until they buffed BLM, yes. then BLM became better in every turn that isn't T1 and T7.

Any fight that have movement mechanics in Alex, its already outshined by SMN easily.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

It was until they buffed BLM, yes. then BLM became better in every turn that isn't T1 and T7.

---

So its okay for SMN to Outshine BLM for two Coils but is bad when they're finally the better caster in Final?
I would like both casters to be good, not one or the other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

If SE overeacts and flat out buff Black Mage potency again they should give Summoner Teraflare as a normal spell with 1200 potency and a 3min cd just to balance it out.

---

Do you pull these numbers out of a hat or do you honestly think a 1200 potency CD would have to be added to SMN if BLM got at all buffed?

I think BLM is in a fine spot for content right now. If Savage Alexander is at all like Savage T6-9 I don't think we'd see much BLM in high end groups TBH. Just speculation. We'll see what kind of mobility they need, or if they might change some timers here or there before then (still hoping for 30s Enochian refresh no matter what!).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tman00

So its okay for SMN to Outshine BLM for two Coils but is bad when they're finally the better caster in Final?
I would like both casters to be good, not one or the other.

---

That's the thing, there will always be a better caster depending on the fight, people just need to learn to live with that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sleigh

Do you pull these numbers out of a hat or do you honestly think a 1200 potency CD would have to be added to SMN if BLM got at all buffed?

---

He was being sarcastic probably.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

That's the thing, there will always be a better caster depending on the fight, people just need to learn to live with that.

---

Thing is, most Coils were movement heavy. With how punishing movement is now, SMN will easily take the throne unless we get T8 again which was one fight out of 13.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tman00

Thing is, most Coils were movement heavy. With how punishing movement is now, SMN will easily take the throne unless we get T8 again which was one fight out of 13.

---

None of the coils were movement heavy unless you got really unlucky with mechanics rng.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

He was being sarcastic probably.

---

I wish I could believe you but it's Akiza x_x

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

None of the coils were movement heavy unless you got really unlucky with mechanics rng.

---

There weren't very many fights were you could just sit and turret for at least 1 minute. There were lots of fights that required repositioning and getting ready for any RNG mechanic that could target you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tman00

There weren't very many fights were you could just sit and turret for at least 1 minute. There were lots of fights that required repositioning and getting ready for any RNG mechanic that could target you.

---

But Black Mage could completely avoid a mechanic and turret for more than a minute with their utility. Only way SE can justify a Black Mage buff is if they add a minute cds to their big hitting ability.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

But Black Mage could completely avoid a mechanic and turret for more than a minute with their utility. Only way SE can justify a Black Mage buff is if they add a minute cds to their big hitting ability.

---

Good thing that Utility is Nerfed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

Summoners get punished for having the move if they use Dreadwyrm Trance at the wrong time resulting in massive damage loss. Black Mages are just complaining becuase there job is more technical now and is not easy to maximize damge like 2.0. Black Mages just want to do massive dps without any draw backs which is imbalanced. If SE overeacts and flat out buff Black Mage potency again they should give Summoner Teraflare as a normal spell with 1200 potency and a 3min cd just to balance it out.

---

Just go away, You're embarassing yourself with literally every post. You have no idea you are talking about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

Good luck keeping up Enochain and Astral Fire when using Thundercloud procs. Using them in Astral Fire can actively punish your dps as you have to revert to a single F4, before refreshing astral fire, rather than two.

---

You lose one F4 every time you move, anyway -- unless you can stay inside Ley while dodging -- and a full duration Thundercloud is 100 more potency than F4, if it doesn't clip at all. A rare situation, but I think it can have its uses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waliel

You lose one F4 every time you move, anyway -- unless you can stay inside Ley while dodging -- and a full duration Thundercloud is 100 more potency than F4, if it doesn't clip at all. A rare situation, but I think it can have its uses.

---

You can't assume full duration of Thundercloud though. Most of the time you get it, there is already duration remaining. Furthermore, you then have to use a F1 afterwards, which costs more Mana than a F4, meaning you'll lose another F4 from your rotation later on.

It shouldn't be a DPS loss to lose procs.

thundercloud doesn't get astral fire bonuses

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hallena

Just go away, You're embarassing yourself with literally every post. You have no idea you are talking about.

---

Stop wining and learn to play Black Mage at 60 instead of asking it to be easy whie dealing op damage. Black Mage is has flat out 20% more single target potency than Summoner which more than compensate for the damge loss in movement. I swear Black Mages wont be happy until theyre have twice the amount of potency as the Summoner with a dummy proof rotation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

Snip

---

You seem to assume that all BLMs want to outdo SMN for whatever reason. I can't speak for everyone like you are, but I want to be equal grounds with SMN and both be good fights while SMN is a bit better at some fights while BLM is a bit better at others. I want us to all have fun and play. Not have this discussion and fighting with SMN mains and BLM mains. So please understand why most BLMs are complaining and either give consecutive advise on fights like some have like Bismarck EX and the safe spot or give some possibilities on how to fix this mess. We can all be happy, it doesn't have to be one or the other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

Black Mage is has flat out 20% more single target potency than Summoner which more than compensate for the damge loss in movement.

---

Are you God damn blind? Summoner rivals BLack Mage on a dummy parse single target. Since when BLM do 20% more single target DPS. But let me tell you something about the reality of fights. While you have to move as a summoner, the spells you can't use are Miasma I, Bio II, Ruin 1 (lol), Ruin 3, Shadowflare. Everything else can be use.

What Blackmage CAN cast while they have to move. Scathe, 100 potency.

The only reason SMN was held back in FCoB is because of their mana issues. Otherwise BLM and SMN would have been equal.


Do you want the list of reasons why you shouldn't bring a BLM? Here it is;

BLM and SMN single target DPS is alike but BLM lost a lot more from mechanics and mobility than SMN
SMN do 50% more AoE than BLM
BLM can't use they utility spells or they might lose their AF stacks because SE thought it was smart to force 2 different kind of Grease Lightning type mechanics on a caster.
They nerfed Manawall so you can't escape mechanics to keep DPS

To make it worst, Casters are suppose to be high AoE DPS. They've insanely buffed SMN and they thought it was smart to nerf BLM AoE. There is not a single reason to bring a Black Mage in progression. While Bards have their own issues, they provide great raid utility. They will keep their spot. Some Black Mages will force their group to keep them and be a nuisance more than anything else but smart groups will ask BLMs to roll SMN or they'll find somebody else.

All the Summoners I see post on this thread are ignoring the First and Second Coil facts. They were better because mana was not an issue. They were behind in T8 only because of mana issues and in FCoB they had this problem on all fights. Guess what, you don't have mana issues anymore. BLM had issues on their own and SE decided to worsen it. I don't know why Summoners think this way because you are clearly not seeing the truth if you think BLM was the best caster in the entire 2.0 They gave you awesome new abilities. They fixed your issues and your job is complete. What did we get in 3.0? We replaced F1 with F4. It's the same old boring thing. I am really unhappy with what I got and this is why I'll raid as Summoner until they rework my job. I don't want potency increase from my abilities. I want something to counter my weakness.

It's be cool if they could give you an oGCD that lets you move while casting for 10s at like 1/4 or 1/2 potency, it wouldn't fix a lot of the issues but it'd at least be a bandaid

The DPS of BLM and SMN at singel target can be equal. The biggest difference between them is that the BLM need full experience and coordination of the fight where the SMN can have the same amount of DPS on his 1st try.

Well I tried doing Bismark EX as a black mage yesterday and there's no way I'm going to be able to progress in Alexander if its anything like Bismark like this. Am I going to have to abandon Black mage and roll a new job? I don't want to have to play Summoner since I hate pet mechanics and I'm not very good at summoner at all. On top of that I would have to level it to 60 and that's gonna take me awhile. What should I do?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ToasterMan

Well I tried doing Bismark EX as a black mage yesterday and there's no way I'm going to be able to progress in Alexander if its anything like Bismark like this. Am I going to have to abandon Black mage and roll a new job? I don't want to have to play Summoner since I hate pet mechanics and I'm not very good at summoner at all. On top of that I would have to level it to 60 and that's gonna take me awhile. What should I do?

---

I'm in the same situation. I've mained BLM since 1.0, and loved it all the way. Now i have time limits making me NOT MOVE EVEN MORE, and mechanics that MAKE ME MOVE EVEN MORE. It's so stupid that every single move in a fight like Bismarck Ex, interrupts, to then finally start another cast, to be bombarded with AOE's i need to dodge, to then realise my enochian has ran out and i can't do shit anymore. SO annoying.

imo blm needs some serious tweaking hotfixed today, to adapt to continual excessive never ending, overused, ridiculous, movement fights.

ease off of the non stop aoe or extend timers.

you did bad se...

(99% of the xpac is awwesomeeeeee!!!!! but blm changes are not.)

Havent played blm/smn outside of loldungeons, but if blm and smn are parsing equally on a dummy there is a very serious issue here. It's as dumb as a bard out dpsing a monk on a dummy almost.

New blm rotation is "rocket science" as me and my friend often joke. BLM was always the hardest class to optimize a fight on ( and by optimize I mean near top possible dps for a blm in that fight ) and now with stuff like leylines and enochion it's seems just.....overwhelming on a dummy, god I can't even imagine what it would be like in a stressful raid setting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

play Black Mage at 60.

---

Follow your own advice. Maybe for once you would say something that isnt completely stupid

Loving the changes to BLM! The step up in difficulty is much welcomed. You are a destructive force when you are able to keep Enochian up 100% of the time. I've had a blast reworking my rotation, and I'm getting to that point to where Enochian is always up. It's great to watch these high HP mobs just melt before the power of getting hit 3 x Fire IV then a proc-ed Fire III. Amaze balls. For all the haters, GIT GUD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Woggers

Loving the changes to BLM! The step up in difficulty is much welcomed. You are a destructive force when you are able to keep Enochian up 100% of the time. I've had a blast reworking my rotation, and I'm getting to that point to where Enochian is always up. It's great to watch these high HP mobs just melt before the power of getting hit 3 x Fire IV then a proc-ed Fire III. Amaze balls. For all the haters, GIT GUD.

---

Im glad SE doesnt balance classes around killing B ranks. It's nice to see you're having a great adventure killing random monsters in zones though. keep it up!
However don't comment about class balance in a raiding environement if you don't raid

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hallena

Im glad SE doesnt balance classes around killing B ranks. It's nice to see you're having a great adventure killing random monsters in zones though. keep it up!
However don't comment about class balance in a raiding environement if you don't raid

---

I'm currently pulling around 700 dps in bizmark extreme. Enochian is up about 95% of the time. What he said was spot on. And yes I am a raider, and yes I will be doing savage Alexander, and yes I will be pulling big numbers in there regardless of fight mechanics. So if you're going to talk shit to people, then you better know what you're talking about as well. GIT GUD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Garotte14

I'm currently pulling around 700 dps in bizmark extreme. Enochian is up about 95% of the time. What he said was spot on. And yes I am a raider, and yes I will be doing savage Alexander, and yes I will be pulling big numbers in there regardless of fight mechanics. So if you're going to talk shit to people, then you better know what you're talking about as well. GIT GUD

---

Cool. Now compare yourself to a good summoner.
Who also has more aoe, mobility and utility. Which lead to what the whole complaining is about. There is no reason to bring a blm because smn is better at everything. except dummy dps testing

At least Yoshi plays BLM... so if he himself gets convinced of the BLM terribleness, you guys will have one hell of a lever to pull from and force some changes for BLM on SE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hallena

Im glad SE doesnt balance classes around killing B ranks. It's nice to see you're having a great adventure killing random monsters in zones though. keep it up!
However don't comment about class balance in a raiding environement if you don't raid

---

Wow I'm sorry my success hurts you so! I do raid btw, check out my lodestone, I don't hide my achievements. ;) Remember there will always be people more skilled than others. It seems that this time is one of those cases. Hope you figure out the new rotation! If you have any questions on what to do I'll be more than happy to leave so tips for you. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

You can't assume full duration of Thundercloud though. Most of the time you get it, there is already duration remaining. Furthermore, you then have to use a F1 afterwards, which costs more Mana than a F4, meaning you'll lose another F4 from your rotation later on.

It shouldn't be a DPS loss to lose procs.

---

Eh, true. There are few rare places where you can still use your cloud, though. Just trying to think where.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xisin

thundercloud doesn't get astral fire bonuses

---

I know. A full T3 Thundercloud is 60+8*35*2=620.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Woggers

Wow I'm sorry my success hurts you so! I do raid btw, check out my lodestone, I don't hide my achievements. ;) Remember there will always be people more skilled than others. It seems that this time is one of those cases. Hope you figure out the new rotation! If you have any questions on what to do I'll be more than happy to leave so tips for you. :D

---

/checks Lodestone

- no Savage, no EX Bismark/Ravana, only beaten T13 1-4 times with 15% echo

Not to be a complete dick but ... what success? Probably shouldn't have referenced your Lodestone as a "I am raider hear me roar" gesture.

Also I doubt anyone here can't do the dungeons properly with Enochian (the only endgame you've apparently seen in 3.0). Anyone can do the Enochian rotation, and keep it up in that environment. We're talking about mechanic heavy turns, which you might not understand will have actual DPS checks in proper gear when it's released, and a good SMN will have us at a disadvantage.

The class is strong in its nature, there's no denying that. Closer to melee than we've EVER been. But the core of the class has been and always should be about mitigating mobility - now it has that same penalty, but we have longer casts (less chance to successfully stutter step dodge) while messing with Enochian timers, Astral Heat, CDs, Leylines. There are workarounds, compromises. I'm not even sure if Yoshi-P intended full Enochian or not at this point, perhaps BLM isn't designed to keep up with melee in every fight we can and that's the point. That said I just don't foresee patch 3.0 BLM thriving in the only hardcore raid content we'll have unless a tweak or two is thrown here or there, mostly extremely small ones unrelated to damage output.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Woggers

Wow I'm sorry my success hurts you so! I do raid btw, check out my lodestone, I don't hide my achievements. ;) Remember there will always be people more skilled than others. It seems that this time is one of those cases. Hope you figure out the new rotation! If you have any questions on what to do I'll be more than happy to leave so tips for you. :D

---

I did look at your achievements before making my post. The only content you've done in heavensward is dungeons and hunts. Nothing that is mechanic heavy.
If alexander savage is anything like bismarck extreme, Nobody will ever bring a blm over smn due to lower single target damage when movement/mechanic is involved. lower aoe, less utility and less mobility.

Not to mention that Attack SPeed form Leylines is stupid. It's worth is being reduced by spell speed since it reduce your current GCD so at 2.4 it will give less than 2.5. Meanwhile, SMN get a 20% spell speed buff from their pet crits which increases their DPS. Anyone noticed how Selene got nerfed because all the jobs would have been op with dots and it's not the case for BLM? Thunder is a filler move, increasing dot dps with speed gives us almost 0 DPS gain and BLM got unfairly punished without any adjustment for the dps lost.