Am I only one who finds autoattack so slow ?

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Originally Posted by Murugan

The bolded part is why you probably have so much issues. Also discerning eye is useless, it is pretty much broken at the moment. Try using other abilities or go to the pugilist forum where there is plenty of information on exactly what skills you should be using and when. I'm sorry you are having so much trouble with the new system, but instead of writing a novel about how much you loved flurry spam take 2 minutes and learn how to play the class under the new system. You'll see what I am talking about.

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and btw there is almost nothing new in the pugilist forum, when i say almost nothing, i really mean nothing except for people saying how the new battle system has made pugilist feel more boring and how mp costs on basic attacks make no sense. so maybe you should go read it yourself.

To be honest, I really only read the first page. I think attack speed is fine as it is, especially considering they will be adding in jobs down the road such as Bard that could possibly increase attack speed for the party. Also, it has been stated that multi-hit weapons will be added down the line which would make it feel like you are attacking faster.

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Originally Posted by Physic

you dont get it, i know how to play the job. I am not new to battle. i understand how it works, it is lame.

the whole style is dedicated to tp building and tp dumping, its the same now for every melee class.

get tp, dump tp
thats it.
use skill as soon as cooldown is up, or wait for tp.

invogorate is now a required skill, by your own words, why? because the entire melee game is get tp and dump it, and invogorate no longer has any cost or choice associated with it.

it is boring

Its sad that what your implying is that under the current system, there is only one loadout of skills,

"there is plenty of information on exactly what skills you should be using and when"

this statement is the fail of a battle system. If there is only one path which goes even to the point of exactly when to use skills, why not just get a machine to do it.

rotation cool down non dynamic i could write a macro to play this game for me battle design is crap.

what choices are you making in battle?
how do you alter your play to adapt to specific enemies?
what happens in a battle that you have to react to?
where is the strategy in your fighting on a personal level?

every FF had elements of this in every battle, except when you out leveled your opponent, you chose when to defend, when to attack, when to increase defense, when to focus on attack when to heal. You had sequences of events that set up specific abilities (most limit breaks) you had differing enemies that would require you to use your same skills differently and focus on that.

where does this happen in this system now? people hate on ff13, but even with an almost completely automated attack system, you still had to answer all of the questions, going even further for some enemies.

This battle system is almost completely without depth for melee now. It wasnt that deep before, but now its nothing. we can now all be robots and be you murugan. fail

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There is always a best way of doing things no matter what. Discerning eye is not as useful as many other abilities, it's effect even if you are taking extreme amounts of damage is simply not worth it. The ability is pretty useless and is likely broken.

Other abilities are more useful you should try using them. Get irParser, and test whatever loadout you want. You don't have to use mine. However, your goal should be using every ability you can slot as often as is beneficial.


The old system had no more depth than the current system, it had less because you had to spend so much time using basic attacks which are now abstracted in Auto Attack. You can now use a greater variety of abilities, you just aren't doing that as I have said many times before. I know you aren't because you post things like "melee don't have enough useful abilities".

I must have missed where I said it was the best battle system ever, if it were they obviously wouldn't need to be adding a job system. I believe I said the last battle system was crap, simplistic, and only impressed people like you who felt they were being "strategic" because the choices in ability use were so much more obvious. The more things players are doing and keeping track of the more complex the battle system, people do that more now so the battle system was improved by auto attack. It is still rotational (as was the previous system), and that is its flaw but until we get specialized party roles and a new better BR system that's just the way MMO combat is (which is why most of them are crap).

Games which have you spam more make the rotational aspect even more obvious and boring because it is a simple choice of "get the most out of every global cooldown" which is how the previous system worked (except at least it had a TP system which most modern MMO's lack). Now you have to take into account cooldowns and as a result is much harder to efficiently use your time in a fight. You don't have to read the pugilist forums, you can keep doing what you are doing (using discerning eye, invigorate, auto attack and TP moves only?), or you could get irParser and develop your own style.

Anyways I don't care if you don't want help to understand the new system (though it isn't really that complicated I don't now why you struggle with it so much) that's completely your choice. They are still changing the combat system to add more complexity because they actually can under the new system they are developing unlike the original battle/armory system. I really doubt though that they will ever bring back basic attack spam like you and darkstarpoet want because that was a stupid horrible system.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Murugan

There is always a best way of doing things no matter what. Discerning eye is not as useful as many other abilities, it's effect even if you are taking extreme amounts of damage is simply not worth it. The ability is pretty useless and is likely broken.

Other abilities are more useful you should try using them. Get irParser, and test whatever loadout you want. You don't have to use mine. However, your goal should be using every ability you can slot as often as is beneficial.


The old system had no more depth than the current system, it had less because you had to spend so much time using basic attacks which are now abstracted in Auto Attack. You can now use a greater variety of abilities, you just aren't doing that as I have said many times before. I know you aren't because you post things like "melee don't have enough useful abilities".

I must have missed where I said it was the best battle system ever, if it were they obviously wouldn't need to be adding a job system. I believe I said the last battle system was crap, simplistic, and only impressed people like you who felt they were being "strategic" because the choices in ability use were so much more obvious. The more things players are doing and keeping track of the more complex the battle system, people do that more now so the battle system was improved by auto attack. It is still rotational (as was the previous system), and that is its flaw but until we get specialized party roles and a new better BR system that's just the way MMO combat is (which is why most of them are crap).

Games which have you spam more make the rotational aspect even more obvious and boring because it is a simple choice of "get the most out of every global cooldown" which is how the previous system worked (except at least it had a TP system which most modern MMO's lack). Now you have to take into account cooldowns and as a result is much harder to efficiently use your time in a fight. You don't have to read the pugilist forums, you can keep doing what you are doing (using discerning eye, invigorate, auto attack and TP moves only?), or you could get irParser and develop your own style.

Anyways I don't care if you don't want help to understand the new system (though it isn't really that complicated I don't now why you struggle with it so much) that's completely your choice. They are still changing the combat system to add more complexity because they actually can under the new system they are developing unlike the original battle/armory system. I really doubt though that they will ever bring back basic attack spam like you and darkstarpoet want because that was a stupid horrible system.

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you really dont understand what im saying.

I understand the current battle system.

It is an average system, it wont bring anyone to this game on its own merit.

the old system wasnt god, but it was better than this one.

Im not telling them to bring back the old system, im saying they need to work on more than just limiting peoples cross class skills and fixing the AA battle animations (which is their current battle plans) They minimalized a lot of strengths of the old system when they made all basic skills follow the same 30-90 second cool downs.

the point is not that we need to be able to press more buttons, but increase our controls of our charachters, and in class synergies.

They dont need me to press light strike all the time, but they should build in some mechanic that allows maintain a higher defense and evasion, especially if half of my skills are built around making use of my evasion

I dont need to broad swing every 2 seconds, but i should have a means on marauder of gaining more benefit from gathering monsters than an archer or a pugilist who has equiped my abilities on subjob, that synergizes with standing still and multi target WS.

Essentially the reason people feel like its slow (IMO which could be wrong), is because they feel a lack of control, like i said ffxiii has an almost completely automated battle system which still manages to feel exciting and fast paced. Fxii also managed to have an automated battle system that felt more fast paced, deep and had more control.

Its about making a better battle system. you just get defensive and talk about how its workable now. the question is how is it good? when do you get satisfaction in battle? does it seem like your choices in battle have an effect?

The only real hope this battle system has going by their proposed plans, is that the job specific skills are awesomely intertwined and intriguing, bringing excitement to battle, buttttt going by what changes ive seen so far, they seem to be going away from that.

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Originally Posted by Physic

you really dont understand what im saying.

I understand the current battle system.

It is an average system, it wont bring anyone to this game on its own merit.

the old system wasnt god, but it was better than this one.

Im not telling them to bring back the old system, im saying they need to work on more than just limiting peoples cross class skills and fixing the AA battle animations (which is their current battle plans) They minimalized a lot of strengths of the old system when they made all basic skills follow the same 30-90 second cool downs.

the point is not that we need to be able to press more buttons, but increase our controls of our charachters, and in class synergies.

They dont need me to press light strike all the time, but they should build in some mechanic that allows maintain a higher defense and evasion, especially if half of my skills are built around making use of my evasion

I dont need to broad swing every 2 seconds, but i should have a means on marauder of gaining more benefit from gathering monsters than an archer or a pugilist who has equiped my abilities on subjob, that synergizes with standing still and multi target WS.

Essentially the reason people feel like its slow (IMO which could be wrong), is because they feel a lack of control, like i said ffxiii has an almost completely automated battle system which still manages to feel exciting and fast paced. Fxii also managed to have an automated battle system that felt more fast paced, deep and had more control.

Its about making a better battle system. you just get defensive and talk about how its workable now. the question is how is it good? when do you get satisfaction in battle? does it seem like your choices in battle have an effect?

The only real hope this battle system has going by their proposed plans, is that the job specific skills are awesomely intertwined and intriguing, bringing excitement to battle, buttttt going by what changes ive seen so far, they seem to be going away from that.

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The changes they have made have only helped that is what I'm arguing not that the current system is the best combat system in an MMO ever. Your solution is for them to make basic attacks usable more often, and that was one of the problem with the previous system. You are stuck thinking that the old battle system was great, and it wasn't. It was worse that is why they changed it. Now they can actually flesh it out and add more objectives (such as through the job system, new abilities (which give more of a unique flavor to roles), and a better BR system).

The previous system was not salvageable in my opinion. Anytime that you go to an MMO battle system where basic attacks form the main aspect of battle/take up the most of the player's time you simply cannot add in as much complexity later. Some people prefer that, and for them there are other MMO's on the market. It is not as complex or deep though as an actual RPG style combat system that gives the player the ability to use more abilities and do many different things during combat to affect the outcome other than simply focusing on the basics.


Anyways people like different things from games, obviously we have two different definitions of depth and strategy. I'm going to go play Sengoku because in addition to MMO's I enjoy Paradox's grand strategy games, most people don't they find them too complex/confusing. It is a niche, but I don't play strategy games like Starcraft even though it is more popular and an "esport", those types of strategy games haven't appealed to me since Age of Empires II it is a different type of strategy (and honestly I think the newest Starcraft is much worse in how they've simplified the genre). I like those games because I enjoy having to think about what I'm doing, I get bored fast with simple systems and rotational combat/strategy even if you speed it up because it is just a matter of learning the priorities. Some people like Chess, some like checkers and some people like hungry hungry hippo (the previous combat system).

I'll admit the current battle system especially once they remove the BR system will be boring and not up to my standards, but it is better than the previous system still and I like what I've heard about the changes that are coming (in the form of specialized roles with the job system).

so far Physic has a much more compelling argument on why he prefers the old system.

I will go off a topic with the following, anyway. For PS3 users who has not experience with Online FF or are accustomed on dynamic games with controller this system will let their analog to rest.

+ I hope sometimes later some PvP will be added (which is content alone and more funny in many aspects than Pve(AI) ).
However I can not imagine PvP (If that will be added in any form - competition). I cant think of system like :

Challenge !
Wait 4 sec, here is my AA, enemy's AA, wait 4 sec Enemy's AA o_O you can see why I am worried about current system in general. You can usually experience this in solo play now. So if you re party player (which I am not, due to lack of communication on my server) you are not taking this in so much as I do by guess. Anyway I to solo a lot. Thats why I would wish a faster AA or some improvements to this. (I wonder if haste wll save beginners from this.)

>_<

Shouldn't knock it before you actually try it. PvP in XI was pretty fun.