Our passive characters and why the 2.55 story fails (BIG SPOILERS) (rant warning)

Passive characters here and there, but still - we got like an hour and a half of actual cutscenes where some real shit goes down. I've never played an MMO that does that before. :D

I dont feel like writing an essay response to the OP about how I completely disagree, so I will just say that I completely disagree with the OP. I felt the story was excellent. I understand why certain things are done the way they are done (ie: the passiveness) so I never am bothered by it. The last 2 quests in the story line had me on the edge of my seat...Better than half the movies you watch these days. I have zero complaints.

I just think we will see all people in Ishgard back; my theory: The Ishgard People saw this coming, helped everyone or most and brought them to Ishgard. Since we cannot enter this place until June, we wont meet them again also the syndicate wont find them there!

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Originally Posted by Remus

Uhhh...No? The reason we could beat primals was because of the blessing of light. The Echo is what helped us not get tempered by primals. If they just had the Echo they wouldn't be able to kill primals. The blessing of light allowed us to have strengths past mortal limits. The Echo only allows us to know all languages, not being tempered by primals and see past events but can't interfere with them. I am pretty sure Minfilia can't kill primals even though she has the Echo.

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And exactly this blessing of light got sealed after the first meeting with Midgardsormr.

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Originally Posted by Krazymagic

I dont feel like writing an essay response to the OP about how I completely disagree, so I will just say that I completely disagree with the OP. I felt the story was excellent. I understand why certain things are done the way they are done (ie: the passiveness) so I never am bothered by it. The last 2 quests in the story line had me on the edge of my seat...Better than half the movies you watch these days. I have zero complaints.

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you don't even have complaint about how they handled Minfilia?

srlsy?

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Originally Posted by MacHorz

I just think we will see all people in Ishgard back; my theory: The Ishgard People saw this coming, helped everyone or most and brought them to Ishgard. Since we cannot enter this place until June, we wont meet them again also the syndicate wont find them there!

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actually, in the last part, yugiri says that her people (meaning the Domans) are looking for the Scions

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Originally Posted by Velia

The player character is a soulless puppet devoid of will.
All they do is nod and follow instructions and do not see blatant things that will get them into trouble later. For example, immediately after being informed that many of the Crystal Braves have been compromised, my character comes upon a random Crystal Brave and... tells him exactly what she's doing and who she's come to meet. Surprise surprise, this guy is one of the bad guys.
and our character is supposed to know this? i don't like the fact that my character is so good natured, but we honestly don't know who is a turn coat and who isnt until Nanamo hits the floor.
The most egregious example of this is just after Nanamo's poisoning (an element which by the way was so incredibly obvious, the creepy handmaiden who poisoned her might as well have been wearing a black top hat and mustache) our character passively submits to arrest by Teledi and a bunch of generic goons. No resistance from a multiple world saviour with a weapon that is worth more than all the goons' gear combined, nope, off in chains she goes!
Meanwhile Thancred faced with the exact same situation chooses to fight, and hey he gets away.
sometimes fighting is the solution, sometimes complying is the solution. in our case, we were right in front of the Sultana's body; fighting would have simply been a death sentence to us, like it or not playing the passive game makes it look like we were just caught up in it.
Alphinaud is really stupid
Okay, come on, really? I can buy he's a bit naive, but so incredibly dumb that 90% of his private army turn against him? And I can only assume Yoshi really hates Alphinaud, as they keep drilling home the point that he's dumber than a kettle of fish. Even after recognizing that the Braves have been ridiculously compromised and after knowing one of his men was murdered by his fellows, he still goes off to meet a bunch of Braves alone and can thank pure dumb luck that he still has his head.
He was caught up in his own hubris. He isn't the first to get himself caught up in a situation like this. the story of the well meaning and powerful idiot has been told often before.
Raubahn is the only character in the entire plot with a functioning brain
everyone knows it doesn't make any sense, and that Teledji is obviously making a power play, but after being accused like that you think FIGHTING is the solution? "you all are traitors!" "no we aren't!" *stabs noble accuser in full view of everyone
Every Scion except Thancred is completely useless
Even after Smirking Dummy (I forget his name) cuts Raubahn's arm off and admits to masterminding Nanamo's death, the rest of the Scions stand there and watch passively as Smirking Dummy and Raubahn fight. Most embarassingly, when Raubahn is punted across the room, Ysh'tola acts... only to shield herself and her fellow passive bystanders. No really, thanks for your support lady!
The worst part, the absolute worst part of course is when Raubahn unties my character. "Great!" I thought. "Now it's on! Together we will..." ... be told to run away even though in any logical term, Smirking Dummy + Random Goons vs. Me + Rauhban + Scions = Smirking Dummy loses.
see previous comments.
Now before you say it yes, even if they still had to run from the whole Ul'dan army they'd be in a better position!
yes. dead from being overwhelmed by every crystal brave and brass blade in Ul'dah, or "Eorzea's light in the shadow" looking like they assasinated the sultana, and with their compatriots murdered every single brass blade and crystal brave. good job winning the hearts of the people hero.
Let's shoe-horn Cid in, in a really bad way
So really. Me and Alphinaud flee to the Black Shroud and then get on the Enterprise for shelter in Coerthas? (we fled to black brush station. in the c. Thanalan. not the black shroud.)
Excuse me? We just went through several scenes where the leaders of the Eorzan Alliance state they will always put their own interests first and you're telling me it's not save in Gridania? Senna would just allow Ul'dans to search her territory, cajole her people and forcibly remove a Gridanian citizen (which my character is not that they'd remember that of course)?
After they went and gave the crystal braves pretty much free reign to do what they want, yes.
I would totally get this idea if Cid, say, flew up to the Ul'dan ramparts and rescued our character that way. Which is entirely possible since he has an airship
the thing is, we weren't even near the Ul'dah ramparts, we escaped through a tunnel that leads to ruins just outside Ul'dah. also airships filled with ceruleum are quite flammable, and the crystal blades have *gasps* mages.
Now please understand this is not me nitpicking. If I wanted to nitpick I'd point out that Yugiri with her mask off apparently walked around Coerthas in the middle of a dragon invasion without comment.
I can deal with minor niggles. I can't deal with a plot that's utterly disjointed and only works if every single character is drinking gasoline.
This story is not good, and makes me fear for the expansion if all we're going to get is more of this.
Auri aren't dragons. they would have turned her back at the gates if they were not tolerant of her. either that or she didn't let them see her walk in.
Unless, of course, this is all a genius subversive narrative intended to prove the Garlean Empire and everything Gaius said absolutely right. Eorzea completely needs the authority and leadership of Garlemald because hell, everybody in charge of it has no business leading a parade, let alone nations or organisations. Gaius was right in some ways, but controlling eorzea is like controlling the middle east. good sodding luck.

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TL,DR: only an idiot fights in retaliation when being accused of treason.

all i can say is... Nanamo hit me in the feelers and fueled my rage towards Lolorito and Tedliji along with IIberd being added to that list soon after. :(

( Did anyone bother talking to any of the NPC's after the indicent? Crafter masters have a new dialog if you trained under them and I personally find the Alchemist one enjoyable. )

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Originally Posted by Vydos

I think most of the things our character did made sense. Not so much the npc's though...Minus Raubahn that seemed to stay true to his character. You also need to realise that our action moments can't be placed in cutscene format. How would you even achieve this in a mmorpg. Different races, different height, different classes/jobs, gear, weapons. I wouldn't want to be the person trying to create a cutscene with so many factors...

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CS end, fight start. If you win, the CS start again where it stopped. If you lose you have to do the fight again until you win.

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Our "cutscene" action moment are our instanced fights. That's the way you need to look at it.

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exactly

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Originally Posted by saber_alter

TL,DR: only an idiot fights in retaliation when being accused of treason.

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Yeah like Thancred and Raubahn.

I'm also pretty sure if you just killed every monetarist and all the brass blades a lot of people in Ul'dah would completely support that. Twice, since its you doing it. Bonus points added if you offer refugees work as new Silver Blades.

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Originally Posted by Defteros

you don't even have complaint about how they handled Minfilia?

srlsy?

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No. They are the story tellers telling their story. Nothing about it bothered me. I cant think of any other MMO that has made me feel as invested in the characters and story as FFXIV has thus far, especially with that ending. I take my hat off to them for that. What other mmo would invest so much time in creating those lengthy story cutscenes? You can dislike the story or how they handled it I guess, but I for one felt it was well done, and certainly value their vision and expertise on the story over teenagers on the internet who likely cant even write a proper essay.

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Originally Posted by Krazymagic

What other mmo would invest so much time in creating those lengthy story cutscenes?

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Star Wars: The Old Republic. Their cutscenes were fully voiced and you actually got to make decisions which influenced the outcome.

One point that I would like to mention is that we actually don't know what our reputation is like anymore. Sure we were hunted out, but that was all turncoats and people under bribes. The leaders left without indication as to what their thoughts are not to mention the general populous. Also the Ishgard leaders are VERY suspicious of the entire affair. I think that we actually have a pretty well intact reputation once the blood-money runs out.

I feel a lot of the story elements are limited to the game mechanics themselves, often times you are asked to battle some threat and to go gather allies to do it. For us as the gamer, those allies are seven other people. But from the perspective of the npcs and our characters we probably gathered a whole army or so to fight this threat. In other words, because the game is often limited to solo, four man or 8 man, the power of our character might be exaggerated.

A example of this is after steps of faith, one of the npcs state that many people were lost during the battle. But from the perspective of the gamer, we only had 7 other people who helped defend. Another thing to consider is often time we view cutscenes and story elements outside of our character's perspective. Or in other words we get to view things happening when we aren't there. Which gives us information that technically our character really doesn't know.

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Originally Posted by Domira

I feel a lot of the story elements are limited to the game mechanics themselves, often times you are asked to battle some threat and to go gather allies to do it. For us as the gamer, those allies are seven other people. But from the perspective of the npcs and our characters we probably gathered a whole army or so to fight this threat. In other words, because the game is often limited to solo, four man or 8 man, the power of our character might be exaggerated.

A example of this is after steps of faith, one of the npcs state that many people were lost during the battle. But from the perspective of the gamer, we only had 7 other people who helped defend. Another thing to consider is often time we view cutscenes and story elements outside of our character's perspective. Or in other words we get to view things happening when we aren't there. Which gives us information that technically our character really doesn't know.

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Note that a number of times (The two final dungeons for the 2.0 story, I believe the Steps of Faith as well) it is explicitly stated that we *are* a small team of adventurer's doing the job. In regards to the Steps of Faith, that was not the only place being contested, that was just the place we, the players, were tasked with defending.

Yeah, people need to separate gameplay mechanics and lore. And we all should get used to it for those who played other FF and RPGs.

Still, a sentence where they the the player weapons arent allowed will be good enough. But I would've prefered a non-win scenario ala Zack vs soldiers in Crisis Core

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

Note that a number of times (The two final dungeons for the 2.0 story, I believe the Steps of Faith as well) it is explicitly stated that we *are* a small team of adventurer's doing the job. In regards to the Steps of Faith, that was not the only place being contested, that was just the place we, the players, were tasked with defending.

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Yea but small could mean anything. It doesn't give a direct number. Either way it wouldn't make sense, consider this too. From a player perspective you are grouped with 7 other warriors of light, who somehow lost their light the same way you did and who npcs also praise for being the savior of everything. Actually every player in game is a warrior of light so why not get everyone together and solve all of Eorzea's problems? Not only do gameplay mechanics interfere with the story, but so does the fact that the game is a mmorpg. Not too long ago mmorpgs weren't known to have good stories like single player rpgs. The main reason being is that you can not have everyone playing the main character. FF14 tells a interesting story for a mmorpg, but they break some rules by letting you be the main character anyway. The result is a lot of inconsistencies and questionable things like the OP has a problem with.

I really didn't like the conclusion leaving so many things unfixed. Like the first thing I did after all events was teleport back to Ul'dah and walk around like nothing happened? Ok whatever. That kind of stuff falls on a huge peeve of mine and I'm having trouble getting over it that's why I'm ranting my frustration here =/

Here's why the story sucked: we spent 25 levels gathering random crap for a party thrown in our own honor. Then, we wound up sitting alone at a bar where no one bothered to speak with us. Then, of course, they had to treat all characters like horny straight guys regardless of orientation and character sex. And let's not forget about the 7 nameless women who were raped and/or murdered for the sole purpose of driving the plot (and never mentioned again.) And yes, there's Minfilia, AKA the walking boobs. Her primary characteristics are lacking any kind of leadership ability (she can't make a single decision on her own) and looking good while bound.

it seems like no matter how much you do, the NPCs are so useless and lazy they need you to walk 10 steps, pick things up, and hand them to people standing right next to them. We spend more time running errands fit for new recruits than feeling like epic heroes. And the flattery they lay on us is downright embarrassing. "Oh great hero! Slayer of gods! Please, file those papers on my desk and refill the coffee maker." It's idiotic.

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Originally Posted by myahele

Yeah, people need to separate gameplay mechanics and lore. And we all should get used to it for those who played other FF and RPGs.

Still, a sentence where they the the player weapons arent allowed will be good enough. But I would've prefered a non-win scenario ala Zack vs soldiers in Crisis Core

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We actually had one of those at around levle 20, when we were investigating Ifrit.

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Originally Posted by Krazymagic

...and certainly value their vision and expertise on the story over teenagers on the internet who likely cant even write a proper essay.

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Hear. Feel. Understand.
I would not be so quick to undervalue the opinion of a person on the internet. Or to consider them all mere teenagers.

Personally it makes sense to me. Our characters are the tip of the sword in the battle against the bad/evil that goes on in the world. So everyone wants to keep us alive even I they have to sacrifice themselves. You can see it in our characters fave we want to help, but at the same time we understand we need to survive and not make their sacrifices go in vain.

Also besides all that... WTF IS URIANGER DOING WITH THE ASCIANS!!!!????

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Originally Posted by Krazymagic

No. They are the story tellers telling their story. Nothing about it bothered me. I cant think of any other MMO that has made me feel as invested in the characters and story as FFXIV has thus far, especially with that ending. I take my hat off to them for that. What other mmo would invest so much time in creating those lengthy story cutscenes? You can dislike the story or how they handled it I guess, but I for one felt it was well done, and certainly value their vision and expertise on the story over teenagers on the internet who likely cant even write a proper essay.

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Lol. Clearly anyone whose opinions differ from yours are easily passed off as the prattling of mindless teenagers. The story telling is good but everything felt too convenient to me and concluded with far too many plot holes. Anyone with any expertise in writing knows that there is always room to improve something and that not everyone will feel that your choices with your story telling were good.

But moreover, with writing for a video game, some forms of good writing practices need to be sacrificed. I am speaking from experience here because I'm developing an RPG myself coming from a story writing background and there is almost no way you can tell a perfect story while still taking into account that gamers need to PLAY a game not just sit through a novel experience.

Regardless, let people enjoy their opinions. No need to shove your clearly superior tastes into other people's faces.

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Originally Posted by Parodine

So much of the entire situation is unknown to the general public. Many of the ordinary city folk don't even know that the Sultana is dead -- that she's 'sick'. Although maybe she is, but that's another theory.

I don't think it's unthinkable that the majority of the people either don't know or are unwilling to believe viscous lies about the hero that's saved them countless times.

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Which sort of weakens the whole "let's frame the player character" bit.

Think of other stories where this plot element is used. Usually most of the populace buys whatever the authorities are telling them (even when wanting to believe otherwise) and you have a handful of sympathizers that help make it possible for the protagonist to clear their name (whether its by virtue of truly trusting the protag or simply not knowing of the "crime" is up to the author). Sure, you can tell me that the commoners in Ul'dah trust the brass blades and the syndicate as far as they can throw an overweight gobbue, but that raises other questions.

I'll concede that the public would probably riot if they were told the Sultana is dead, and the monetarists would want to keep that part of the story from the public to prevent such an uprising; that is, until they can come up with a convincing story for the public or they conjure up a lookalike for them to manipulate (unless Nanamo is alive and they somehow "reprogram" her to do exactly as they tell her).

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Originally Posted by Chasely

We actually had one of those at around levle 20, when we were investigating Ifrit.

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Forgot about that. Yeah, there should've been a level-synched instance like that. Especially since the whole ordeal was just cutscenes after cutscenes. Despite being the primal slayer, we'd still be at a disadvantaged due to the ambush and being overwhelmed.

Additionally, it would kinda work against us since they can use that as evidence of us truly being an assassin. Everything after that could play out the same.

I understand the trope of the mute and zombie player character so not to suggest they have a personality different than the user. However, I feel like it's a tad bit overused in this game merely because we have such a plethora of beautiful and entertaining cut-scenes. I'd really would like to see an increase in dialogue choices in the future. Even if they're meaningless to the outcome, at least I feel by choosing a response my character isn't just standing around oblivious as a dodo. Also, the few that we have had were all extremely entertaining and clever and just really adds to the experience.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

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I think the rioting is key. They derive power from money, much of which is hinged on the people and trade. If they revealed the Sultana is dead and riots did ensue, their plan definitely crumbles. The brass blades and traitor crystal braves will go wherever the money is. And if they lose that, they lose their 'army'. If Swift and Pippin can be believed, the Immortal Flames are likely on our side. They certainly don't seem to believe Raubahn deserves imprisonment, anyway.

Sadly, as you will find in any story/TV show/game, if characters were smart and made logical decisions, there would be no drama. Nothing to keep you on the edge of your seat. That's why I don't nitpick at the plot, i just try to sit back and enjoy the ride.

Though, when Teledji Adeledji was throwing around accusations when everyone in the room knew he was lieing, i was screaming "YOU IDIOTS, KILL HIM, HE'S OPEN JUST DO IT AND BE DONE WITH IT!" and they just kept going, and when the camera panned to Admiral Merylwyb i was like "SHOOT HIM. SHOOT HIM. For the love of god SHOOT HIM IN THE BLOODY FACE" and she was just like "Bah" and stormed off.

You have no idea how satisfied i was when Raubahn slaughtered him, god i wanted that moment to last forever. That little bit sated me through the rest of the finale.

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Originally Posted by Darkshaunz

Then there are those of you here in this thread who have main classes like MNK, NIN, WAR, DRG, and magic users. You telling me that your Ninja couldn't have dismembered those four goons? And how about the Warriors? You guys would have made them stain their pants brown just with a good warcry.

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A Black Mage could cast Sleep and make their escape (PLD's Flash to blind, WHM Holy to stun, SMN/SCH Miasma II to disease/heavy, NIN could "teleport ninjutsu" and then hide ability, etc). I'm also really curious as to why our characters couldn't Teleport or cast Return after Papalymo closes the gate. That should "remove us from combat" and allow us to warp.

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Originally Posted by Averax

You have no idea how satisfied i was when Raubahn slaughtered him, god i wanted that moment to last forever. That little bit sated me through the rest of the finale.

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While I agree with you slightly, I think he got off too easy. I would have liked to see him crushed, left penniless and forced to live like all the people he's stepped on. That would be a fate worse than death for him. I, too; however, am sick and tired of my character being absolutely powerless in cutscenes. I have 25 weapons in my hyper-dimensional pocket, 11 i100+ jobs, and while I may be willing to follow someone peacefully, I feel that I would have more than enough bargaining power to go on my own power and unrestrained

(not that I would have ever let Nanamo drink anything after she told me her plans). Being a lvl 50 alchemist I would expect that my character would be knowledgeable or at least have the contacts at her disposal to discover what this suspicious liquid I am carrying around is before I walk into a situation where people I don't trust could spring a trap on me. I mean, I trust Nanamo, but the people around her? Not with a grain of salt.

When it comes to canon manderviles >>>> WoL. Being syndicate members it explains why they won't help

It's an MMO story, not sure what you expect.

I can't stand silent protagonists, but if our character wasn't silent and passive other people would complain stuff like "My character would never do that" etc. No win situation really.

Also it's related to development time, it'd probably be easier if this was a standard mmo where there's 1 class per character, but in a game where your character can do anything I imagine it's really hard for the game to tell which class you're on in cutscenes or something and use the appropriate response skill/spell.

our character can't fight.... more it's too much for him for react.

let's check what did happend, nanamo die infront of us and suddenly we are accused to be the one responsible, surrounded by soldier. first, we are heroes, we don't go killing people around like this. the smartest move is to wait to see what happend. more because we are innocent, fighting there will simply admit that we are guilty.

another point, we are strong that a given, but.... we are in middle of uldah attacked by the joint force of 2 group. even if we are strong, we will not receive help from the immortal since raubahn is himself fighting and most of them are either too a traitor or shocked by all the event. i think they will need a few day before be able to react normally. (them leader are arrested too)

finally, i think it was needed to make it like this.... personally i was shocked of all this event, barely able to keep calm or think logically. it was simply too much.... minfillia know that we are far stronger than any scion and that if we stay alive we can still do thing. she is not different than a princess peach actually, even if she is the leader of the scion. she don't have any power or strength.... i will not talk of alphinaud that still a kids and himself did notice at the end how arrogant and ignorant he was.

now i can't wait to see how will react gridania and limsa lominsa. i means, with the death of Nanamo and raubahn arrested.... the alliance just did loose uldah.

Did anyone ever stop to consider that they hoped you would try to cut a bloody path out of Uldah after the frame? Since you maintained innocence by not putting up a crazy struggle leaving bodies in your wake it's harder for them to discredit you. Sure they might not be able to take you down physically, but if they can take out the support of Eorzea and make you a disgraced hero then they've won the war. Some people here are a bit short-sighted of the long game the Syndicate might have in mind. People rally to the Warrior of Light, as long as you are seen as a hero you are nothing but trouble to them.

Even if you took out Lolorito there are other members of the Syndicate who could state that you killed the Sultana and beat a bloody path out the door when they tried to stop you. Then you go from vaunted hero to villain and are unwelcome anywhere in Eorzea. Getting the heck out while you could was a smart move.

I'm not sure if it was just me, but prior to Nanamo's meeting with you she seems to be looking towards the goblet that's on the table very often. Not only that, but the dialogue that she had with the hand-maiden can be taken much more seriously than it might seem at first. Nanamo thanking the hand-maiden and the reply that it was her honor seemed a bit too serious for just being polite. I keep thinking about that scene and the way Nanamo kept glancing at the goblet on the table and thinking that she knew that it was poisoned. Could it be that she faked her own death?

In the end, I'm kind of wondering if Nanamo is actually dead or not. Then again, it could just be a case of an overactive imagination combined with a poor translation.

Honestly I just enjoyed it for what it was because the moment you start thinking about it it all falls apart, starting from the laughable poisoning (yes of course it was me who poisoned the glass with the sultana right in front of me, not the handmaiden who had been alone with the bottle for who knows how much time, how did anyone keep a straight face when Teledji accused me), to the non-fightning/aiding Rubharn during the party or the escape. It was all as dramatic as it was dumb.

Our character has alwas been the biggest flaw in the storytelling of this game, but that's true for all these kind of games. It's a Final Fantasy but it will never reach Final Fantasy standards, it's to be expected.

To be honest all we need is a little variation in our responces. Silent Protragonist is kinda OLD nowadays expecially when all it would take it to write in SOME lines here and there with a varied responce just like mass effect.

Example!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwcrE1sbBgA

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Originally Posted by Wobi

.... Getting the heck out while you could was a smart move.

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They can already disgrace and/or kill you. From the two military companies under their thumb to just having a levequest out for your head. We're a Eorzean Edward Snowden/Julian Assange. How many real life celebrities do we secretly wish to see them go down in flames? No amount of fame makes you untouchable by everyone as the game suggests.

Having already faked the evidence for the regicide, it wouldn't be that much of a jump to fake us resisting arrest, especially after we're tied up. Dust us up and punch our nose, done!

I just finished the main story for myself last night and I hated it. I took the time to read the thread and I Think I've finally come to the conclusion why; I felt like a prop. I might as well not be there at all for as much bearing I have on the story. The whole "Run you're the only one that can save us!" thing works great when I'm a budding new adventurer. However, having fought gods, the ancient remnants of the Allaghan nation, their genetic mutations, and their stupidly powerful world-ending machines, I'm sort of confused why a handful of mook guards are making me flee. I'm the person these people have turned to EVERY SINGLE TIME to fight the stupidly powerful things they're too weak to. I'm a walking instrument of destruction, but I'm running from guards and my friends are sacrificing themselves to get me out? The hell? Thancred takes on these mooks and wins, Yda takes on these mooks and wrecks their faces, if I'm so much above them why am I running? Also WHY ARE WE RUNNING? did the aethernet suddenly break down? is this not a thing? I had it argued to me by someone in my FC that the aethernet is just a gameplay consideration. However many NPCs make mention of it, the lore behind it, and even how they function. If I'm the most important one to get out why didn't I just port? pop, gone.

I get that the writers want to tell a story and if I look at it objectively without the above considerations it's an interesting political plot. the problem comes from the very large holes in the logic of the story telling. If you need me to be weakened and restrained and need protecting why not just poison me too? That would have filled in several of the holes by itself. give me a scene where I try to resist and get overwhelmed, I would have been less frustrated. Deus ex machina of NPCs is a pretty well recognized trope. have me get overwhelmed and THEN the scions save me and have to escort me out. Something. ANYTHING to explain me turning tail. As written, it feels trite. I am not involved in the goings-on in a meaningful way, I'm just there to be a witness, railroaded by a plot that they wanted, without consideration at all as to who my character is or what they've done.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Remember, you lost your "Warrior of Light" powers when you fought Midgardsormr, and you also have no weapon when you are with the sultana. The fight on the Steps of Faith was mostly done with cannons and dragonkillers.

It may be a plot device, making it so you can't retaliate, but its within the lore of the story up to this point.

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I've read this as an explanation and I could buy it IF we couldn't still kill primals/coil/dungeons in the same way we always had. Clearly Hydealyns influence wasn't so much in making us stronger since we can do the same things without it.

As far as pushing us to Ishgard I also didn't think that worked. If Gridania and Limsa are now in the alliance with the monetarists and are perfectly ok with that then I lost all respect for them and I would think that after coming to their aid numerous times they would have no problems granting us sanctuary.