Playing an MMO with a controller

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

Says another person who doesn't step into coil.

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The half of my raid group is PS4 user and I'm PC player with controller. We are no hardcore group and did mostly play 1 or 2 times a week together. But with the exception of T13, where we had nearly 8 weeks no time for any progress, we were not the slowest in getting through final coil.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

I see you have not stepped into any of the coil turns yet.

Whilst there are console players clearing coil, but when referring to the top teams and early savage coil clearer, I've seen a console/controller user within. There's a reason for that.

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Controllers are not exclusive to consoles, so there's no reason to validate either or in the same statement. Secondly, this game was optimized in mind of a controller, as there is no bottleneck for raiding with one. I know plenty of great players who play with them, and I'll even say you're having selective memory when it comes to your claim. Can you prove there wasn't a single controller user in those groups?

Finally, this is coming from experience. Spare lodestone, I've cleared t13 and I've tanked dps and healed all coils (except healed 13). It's not difficult for me to optimize my dps, or tank, or target as a healer. I don't have to worry about targeting mobs, about strafing as my Bard, or having enough abilities on my hotbar. I don't need to shortcut, I don't have macros attached to my gcds, none of that. It's all preference, simple as that.

Listen Ooshima;

You seem to be the ONLY guy who have consistant difficulties playing with a controller in FCOB.
Maybe you have some disease or a prosthetic arm, or maybe you just suck at video games . Maybe you re just one of these bards capping at 450 dps with a group of awesome friends cutting the dps checks for you. Who cares?

That doesn\\'t give you the right to be condescendant with others or to make perfectly wrong assumptions based on NOTHING but your stupidity like you did for me. You dont know me.

A LOT of other forum members have already proved that they feel perfectly comfortable with a controller in FCOB.

A LOT of other forum members have already understood that, as long as you play with the interface you prefer, you should be fine whatever you do.

I already said that i do prefer KBM for my PVP activities because i can target faster when there is more than 10+ potential targets on screen (do you even PVP? i\\'m rank 44 what about you)

As far as i know, in FCOB, i spend like 80% of the fight targeting the same boss and during this 80% timespan i'm prolly using a maximum of 10 actions.

Dodging with an analogic stick is extremely easy. With a 2.5s GCD that's plenty of time to switch crossbars. FF14 isnt Shootmania Storm.

Now if you want to remain the only special snowflake who is the only person running coil and still believing that KBM is mandatory well its up to you but
be prepared to look like a bad player regardless of your titles / achievment / look / whatever. Attitude makes you interesting, not the shinys.

On a footnote: we are in April 2015. Betting that a random player "dont even final coil" like you did for me, without any proof prolly worked back in Nov 2014 maybe but now it's a risky bet.*
You don't know me. Keep your shitty assumptions for yourself.
Almost everybody is on final coil. Just wake up.

Hi, even if I had the unafortunate event (I only play weekends now) of loosing my raid group, I also got into t13 and stuff, not with for example my monk or SCH... RAther easy jobs such as PLD (Infernal boredom) and BLM...

But still, FCOB is more than doable with gamepad I must say, don't know how some people says about gamepad.... Because I think exactly the opposite... "How the hell can they move and still doing actions with keyboard + mouse?!... " I just would never be able to do so... I imagine trying to use my monk in keyboard... I'd die, but I don't know if of laughter or because monsters first.

I feel the same way about Keyboard and mouse XD

Course I have a keyboard for typing... but I always loose my mouse, don't really need it with the PS4 controller though. I have the mouse pad and mouse mode if I need it.

Ooshima,
My fcob static (beaten 13).
2 controller users on PC (I'm one)
1 keyboard ONLY (no mouse) user
1 keyboard and touch pad (laptop) user
4 keyboard and mouse users. Some just use mouse for camera. Some use for movement. Some just for targeting. Huge variety just within kb/mouse.

Your argument is invalid.

This game is extremely well designed to support an amazing variety of interface options. That is one of the underappreciated gold stars of ffxiv. It is extremely flexible in control schemes and they are all completely viable.

There's also a vid of a solo heal sch t13 somewhere on a controller. Even healers can be played at the top level with controller.

Ffxiv has one of the most flexible interface systems of any mmo I've heard of.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

This game is extremely well designed to support an amazing variety of interface options. That is one of the underappreciated gold stars of ffxiv. It is extremely flexible in control schemes and they are all completely viable.

There's also a vid of a solo heal sch t13 somewhere on a controller. Even healers can be played at the top level with controller.

Ffxiv has one of the most flexible interface systems of any mmo I've heard of.

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I just gotta add to this and say, you can thank their insistence on making a PS3/PS4 version of FFXIV ARR for this. The PS3 is seldom paired with a keyboard, and so a well designed and workable control scheme for the DS3 controller was a mandatory inclusion on the feature list. We hear so much about PS3 limitations, but this is one area which we should all thank the PS3 for.

SE have done a superb job with the controls in this game. The UI looks almost identical on PC/PS4/PS3/Mac, with the exception that PS3 players are practically limited to the controller based interface. While all others can choose between them, and therefore have the conventional hotbar items in their HUD also.

Also, just to add grist to the mill, without the PS3 version, I dare say players with lower end PC hardware would be in a poor way as well since the game would not be quite so hardware friendly without the PS3 version.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

Says another person who doesn't step into coil.

In any instance a MMO dedicated mouse is better than your controller because you simply does not need to scroll through stuffs with your controller. The mouse instantly makes 24 slots on 2 crossbars instantly accessible. That's an undeniable fact. However this does not say that it is not playable with the controller, but it is just more tedious. There are only a handful of players who are on PS4 that can play top contents at an competitive level, throw them a KB and a MMO mouse and I'm sure they can do far better.

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This is just your opinion, not fact, therefore just because you are unable to use a controller to the same level as KB/M does not mean others cannot. Just because you find using a controller tedious does not mean others do also.

How to make it fact? You'd have to do a comprehensive study based on FFXIV and with a large sample size of players and compare KB/M and controller users of the same skill levels.

In my opinion it wouldn't matter though, the global cool down in this game makes ample time for either KB/M or controller to play effectively and the real cap of efficient use of the device is the user not the device itself.

Pretty sure I have seen a world first video with a controller user recording it, don't remember which one though, if I remember I'll post it.

Controller is better for movement. Double joysticks beat anything a Keyboard/Mouse user has to work with in that regard.

Controller is marginally better for activating skills, with all of its controls being in easy reach at all times. KB/M users either have a limited section of their keyboard easily available one-handed, or else they have to forego the mouse in order to have both hands for the keyboard, but that then further limits their movement and targeting controls. (This is as compared to a standard keyboard and mouse. Specialty devices like the Razer Naga some have mentioned, a mouse that can be configured to effectively act as a controller at the same time, may be able to take care of this issue.)

Keyboard & Mouse is marginally better for targeting, since they have mouse-over options that controller players don't. (KB/M would probably be significantly better than Controller if compared to the default controller configuration, but most of the controller's awkwardness is taken care of by setting up multiple targeting filters. It still has the issue of targeting elements of a particular type in a strange seeming order, but the keyboard has that same issue, leaving the mouse as the tiebreaker.)

Keyboard and Mouse is better for things like setting waymarks or any action that gets placed at a spot on the ground rather than on your target.

All in all, I'd say it's pretty much a wash. Each has some slight advantages and some slight disadvantages, but either works well enough for even its worst feature once you're used to it.

...anyone ever try to use, say, a programmable flightstick controller + keyboard?

I am KBM, and my biggest problem with WASD movement is, in the heat of battle I sometimes just have my fingers in the wrong position, and I fail to dodge because I strafe right instead of running the way I intended, etc. Eyes off the screen to re-position, more time lost...

A joystick with keymapping/keyboard emulation, hat switch for camera or targeting, left/right torque for strafing - plus a keyboard... I'd feel right at home, like the glory days of MechWarrior II (Jade Falcon!)

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Originally Posted by Miste

Pretty sure I have seen a world first video with a controller user recording it, don't remember which one though, if I remember I'll post it.

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The BLM Master Spreadsheet has a little "scoreboard" of BLM DPS, with an optional field to note pad usage, about a month into 2.4 there were at least 2-4 pad-using BLMs reporting T13 scores on it with various forms of proof.

There's absolutely no correlation between using a pad or KB+M and being a top raider. There is a correlation in platform - where more top raiders are on PC due to the limitations of playing on PS3 and the expense of a PS4, and so you'll likely see a higher adoption rate of KB+M for the reason that there are simply more KB+M users than pad users on PC, statistically.

No idea how people could use KB+M effectively. I understand that people do, but I just don't think I'd even want to play if I couldn't use a controller. Movement is much more intuitive, there's ample room for any and all actions you might need to use and they're all always perfectly within reach and it's fairly difficult to hit the wrong one by mistake (your hand can't be in the wrong position).

That said, I use a mouse for some universal non-intensive stuff like class change and mounts. I also put long cooldown abilities on a column on the left of the screen for reference (though I activate them with a controller).

I have a feeling I should clarify.

I have a Razor Naga MMO mouse which makes activating spells and skills incredibly easy as it frees up your left hand for movement alone and you dont need to reach across a keyboard.