only 500k subscribers?

500k Subs is actually pretty fantastic, there aren't many Subscription MMO's out there that Sport that many.
After all this isn't a Race, this is a Product and going by the Sep 2014 Financial Statement it is a very well selling Product :p
Also I'm pretty sure that was Daily Logins and not Subs.
There was an Interview about that here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-FFXIV-and-DQX

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Originally Posted by Lanceton

worse than I thought if it's true

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the numbers are likely to go up with 3.0. If 3.0 doesnt deliver or doesnt bring up something big and new, it will likely go down a lot. Why?

- server stability is still worse then in lotsa F2P games
- Many patches offer new, yet absolutley uncreative content. Mainly blabla from npcs.
- Fights are still 100% scripted and have not a single random ascpect. The people i know want to react on a boss fight or in a fight in general, getting their skill tested, not learn a fight via youtube then
faceroll it
- the strong lockout policy pissed so many ppl off that they stopped playing all together.
- new dungeons and primal fights are so boring - because they offer no random aspects. that they are getting boring while you do it the first time.
This is quite new. I have never experienced that in any game before. also not in other mmos in that extreme way.
- the ilvl madness makes every progression useless. you can as well just log in for 2 weeks every like 6 months since everythign wil be outdated anyways, so why bother with capped tomes, just play when the caps are being removed.
- there is close to zero incentive for ppl who actually like to play with a group or friends, the communities fall apart (usually were formed from former 1.0, ffxi, or other games, but this game kills the community due to the way content is designed)

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- there is close to zero incentive for ppl who actually like to play with a group or friends, the communities fall apart

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I think this is the game's single-biggest problem.

Provide content that makes sense for FCs to run together -- and without weekly lockouts, which only fracture communities -- and this game will go on for a very, very long time.

even if it's 500k Subscribers, with a $12 per account, per month, not including what they're raking in with the Cash shop, that's still 6 million dollars per month, this game is doing just fine.

It will increase come expansion. This is a thing for MMO's, even WoW, where over a period of time when the initial game is released or it's expansion pack, the numbers boom and rise very high. Over time, it drops to lower numbers till the next expansion arrives. If I had to take an educated guess, I would say come expansion (if advertised well), you will see a ton of returning players and new ones, possibly hitting back into 800k to (a stretch here) a million subscribers. Over time in Heavensward, probably drop to about 600k-700k. Games like WoW did not get 10 million+ subscribers in a day. This was built up in a course of 5-6 years. ARR has been out for nearly 1.5 years now. The more interesting question is, what do you think numbers will be if SE keeps pushing hard 5 years from now?

In this thread, people can't read. The numbers taken from the March 2014 report are that the three MMOs were barely at 1 million subscribers.

SE themselves gave the 500k number, but they did not count China's subscribers.

"Square Enix tells MCV that the actual number of Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn paying subscribers sits at 500,000, with over 2.5m registered users. These numbers do not include the game's performance in China, which charges Chinese gamers on a per-minute pay model. A Realm Reborn will launch in Korea in 2015."

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Originally Posted by Velhart

The more interesting question is, what do you think numbers will be if SE keeps pushing hard 5 years from now?

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Comparing the amount of "yes we can" to the "no we can't" from devs about various things in general, I wouldn't go all in on SE ever doubling on their stabilized sub rate.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

Comparing the amount of "yes we can" to the "no we can't" from devs about various things in general, I wouldn't go all in on SE ever doubling on their stabilized sub rate.

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How many people have truly unsubbed from "no we cannot" statements? Not that many. Most of the time, people leave because they are bored or frustrated dealing with the content/players. First expansions are always famous for getting a game booming and players get a stronger understanding on what direction the developers want to take. That was the case for Burning Crusade for WoW and Rise of the Zilart for FFXI. Heavensward looks like it is going to take FFXIV in the direction it needs, I look forward to how it all works out.

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Originally Posted by Able

I played Eve Online for ten years. Don't think it ever had more than 500,000 subscribers. And, it never mattered to me. I never had trouble finding players.

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Eve is more of an outlier than WoW in that it is one of if not the only MMO i am aware of that has lived more than a decade with subscriber numbers that continue to CLIMB. Although of course that slow steady rise is still in a range far below the millions. The fact it is probably the most hardcore MMO out there keeps the numbers low, but the game is also constantly updated to keep graphically and systematically current, which is why it doesn't feel like it was made 10 years ago.

Most 'successful' P2P MMOs experience up to 5 years of growth and then a steady decline. The first expansion is a big boon period because many players tend to 'wait' for that expansion period to start on a new MMO. SE probably knows this, which is why they are giving Heavensward such a 'western' flavor, and 'mature' at least artistically/thematically.

Even if the 500k number is accurate, that number is likely to expand gradually up and through the 2nd or 3rd expansion periods if this game follows success trends. Add in china and korea etc etc, and this game might be on pace to peak at several million.

Considering the number of times during the past week I've had to wait in server queues when logging in, I'm 100 percent not at all worried about the game's population. Things are going to get crazy when the expansion hits.

500,000 subscribers and all of them are doing hunts.

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Originally Posted by ExKage

In this thread, people can't read. The numbers taken from the March 2014 report are that the three MMOs were barely at 1 million subscribers.

SE themselves gave the 500k number, but they did not count China's subscribers.

"Square Enix tells MCV that the actual number of Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn paying subscribers sits at 500,000, with over 2.5m registered users. These numbers do not include the game's performance in China, which charges Chinese gamers on a per-minute pay model. A Realm Reborn will launch in Korea in 2015."

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Actually that number is from March of 2014--from the FY21014 reports themselves. It has actually been stated that there are on average around 500k active accounts daily. That's not subscriptions, but the number of accounts that are signed into the game on a daily basis.

It could be considerably more than 500k that have prepaid (ie: subscribed) to have access to the service for the next 29+ days. There are players that come and go sporadically via time card or Crysta, and then there are players that renew automatically via Credit Card--but not all of them log in every single day that they have paid for. So that 500k average activity can be 400k some days, 800k on some, then 300k on others--or any manner of high and low activity up to the touted 2.5million accounts created. In such a scenario, you could track 800k or even up to 2.5 million paid subscriptions during that time period, but there was only an average of 500k active accounts a day. So, that number is grossly misleading.

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Originally Posted by Raist

Actually that number is from March of 2014--from the FY21014 reports themselves. It has actually been stated that there are on average around 500k active accounts daily. That's not subscriptions, but the number of accounts that are signed into the game on a daily basis.

It could be considerably more than 500k that have prepaid (ie: subscribed) to have access to the service for the next 29+ days. There are players that come and go sporadically via time card or Crysta, and then there are players that renew automatically via Credit Card--but not all of them log in every single day that they have paid for. So that 500k average activity can be 400k some days, 800k on some, then 300k on others--or any manner of high and low activity up to the touted 2.5million accounts created. In such a scenario, you could track 800k or even up to 2.5 million paid subscriptions during that time period, but there was only an average of 500k active accounts a day. So, that number is grossly misleading.

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That's what I thought too - that it was very poorly written and thus easily misleads and confuses the reader, where a little common sense is needed to realize that the game does not only have around 500 000 subscribing players at the moment, when they then say '2.5 million registered users' next to it (and in fact, stated the later number as the amount of 'adventurers worldwide!' at the end of the 2.5 trailer a few weeks ago). 2.5 million accounts is actually the true number of players accordingly - of course not everyone is playing at a given time, but it's pretty obvious that there is far more than just 500, 000 players total in this game.

I think that report was just a poorly written translation that the doomsayers have now grabbed onto in desperation to 'prove' that FFXIV ARR is dying (hence the whole point of this thread). The doom and gloom for this game has been around since the Alpha and consistently been proven wrong. FFXIV is in a very strong position right now and is not in any danger of failing. If it was going to fail, that would have been obvious around launch, not a year and a half later. We're not far from matching version 1.0's length of operation, and that was clearly in trouble even before it was released. ARR is fine, and trying to twist the words of a badly-written financial report isn't proof of anything to the contrary of that.

Basically, ignore Chicken Little! Don't listen to Ondore's lies! FFXIV has far more than just 500,000 players, and is in no danger of failing or shutting down.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

'2.5 million registered users' next to it (and in fact, stated the later number as the amount of 'adventurers worldwide!' at the end of the 2.5 trailer a few weeks ago). 2.5 million accounts is actually the true number of players accordingly - of course not everyone is playing at a given time

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You are aware you don't have to be a paying subscriber to be counted in the registered accounts right?

For all we know they are using trial accounts to inflate that as well. Not being a "Doomsayer" but around 500k active players does sound correct, even with just that the game is still making in money hand over first though.

I like that no one posted until PAGE THREE of this thread that the data is almost a year old, and does not represent current sub numbers. Also, this thread has been posted a million times over (linked article is itself almost a month old). Why does everyone act like it's new? Or relevant? Or accurate. It is quite literally NONE OF THESE THINGs.

http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/pdf/ar_2014_01en.pdf

Page 4.

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Originally Posted by Destinova

http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/pdf/ar_2014_01en.pdf

Page 4.

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Uh.. it says DQX, FFXIV and FFXI toegther almost 1mil subs. 3 games for almost 1mil subs. It could be 500,001 rounded off or 999,999.

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Originally Posted by Willo_w

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/squar...ribers/0143457

Update is 20 days old but says source is SE themselves

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That data is from 11 months ago.

The Gold Saucer and the expansion are next. Both will attract lots of new and returning players who will also be able to enjoy all of the other enhancements that have been made to the game since 2.0 launch. ARR is still young. Even if that 500k figure is accurate at this point, that's still a great start.

Hi Elusana,

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Originally Posted by Elusana_Celah

That's because SE can't tell the difference between gil sellers and actual players from China.

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Yes. And, the revenue from these paying RMT accounts is dirty money - RMT scumbag criminals
fund their thousands of 8-player subscriptions with stolen credit card accounts.

Those numbers ARE abysmal! What a disgrace!

As a shareholder i'm disappointed how little marketing this game gets.

Those numbers are almost a year old, they are from march. Read the article.

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Originally Posted by greekgeek

Those numbers are almost a year old, they are from march. Read the article.

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Read the article, they got an update from SE and they confirmed that's still the case.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/squar...ribers/0143457

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Updated: These MMO figures actually come from an original financial report that was filed on March 31st, 2014. Square Enix tells MCV that the actual number of Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn paying subscribers sits at 500,000, with over 2.5m registered users. These numbers do not include the game's performance in China, which charges Chinese gamers on a per-minute pay model. A Realm Reborn will launch in Korea in 2015.

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Originally Posted by Magis

Read the article, they got an update from SE and they confirmed that's still the case.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/squar...ribers/0143457

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Exactly what I've been trying to say. People don't know how to read. The 500k figure and the 2.5m registered users figures weren't in the annual report. Those numbers come from an interview in January that merely "discussed" the annual report.

How do we know that the 500k is a current statistic? Because the 2.5M number listed with it is a current statistic. FFXIV didn't hit 2.5M registered users until December of 2014:
http://ap.ign.com/final-fantasy-xiv-...ses-25-million

On March 31, 2014 - the ps4 version wasn't even released yet. Ignore the annual report - you should be looking at the qutoe Magis provides.

It makes me wonder where the MMO market is. Granted, I've only been subscribed for a total of 3 months (just recently decided to give the game a try again) but what kept me away was my old PC was having graphics driver crashes that made it too risky for me to do group content. I've always thought the game itself is pretty solid and fun to play - certainly deserving of more subscribers.

F2Ps haven't caught my interest in the same way and ESO and Wildstar seem to have bombed. So what are people playing other than WoW?

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Originally Posted by FrogDog

It makes me wonder where the MMO market is. Granted, I've only been subscribed for a total of 3 months (just recently decided to give the game a try again) but what kept me away was my old PC was having graphics driver crashes that made it too risky for me to do group content. I've always thought the game itself is pretty solid and fun to play - certainly deserving of more subscribers.

F2Ps haven't caught my interest in the same way and ESO and Wildstar seem to have bombed. So what are people playing other than WoW?

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The MMO market was never suppose to have these huge numbers. MMOs didn't have these giant subscription rates until WoW came out. Most of these people aren't MMO players, rather they are WoW players, so this is just seeing the slowdown of the genre after WoW became boring and/or people are getting bored of it. Before WoW, 500K was huge for an MMO, and is why Everquest and FFXI were considered "successful" until WoW. Still, marketing and businessmen saw the money Blizzard was raking in so of course tried to copy the formula and then were bewildered why their shitty MMO didn't get 1+ million and went F2P.

Where are these people going? Not to new MMOs, they are playing their singleplayer/multiplayer games. It doesn't matter how much another MMOs copies WoW, it will never beat the original since well... it's a copy. That and how many times can you play WoW with another skin on it before you get bored of it?

All this talk about sales and numbers reminds me of the console plebs who always act tough on the video game playground by trying to prove their console sells more than the other.

Like I really care, if there wasn't a WoW with it's 10 millions we would have F2P MMOs with 100K players, FF with 500K and maybe ESO with 600K? Stop looking at WoW as a measure in subscription based MMO market and you will find out that FFXIV is doing just about fine.

When we will have to wait whole day in queue for low level dungeons and stuff, then there is a time for doomsaying. :D

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

All this talk about sales and numbers reminds me of the console plebs who always act tough on the video game playground by trying to prove their console sells more than the other.

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It's not a dick waving contest like consoles... it's general worry of the health of an MMO. Maybe for some they don't give a shit cause they only play during patch releases, but sub numbers directly tie to if a MMO will survive the long term. Those that want to play a single MMO for years on out hope for large numbers and steady or climb subscriptions, so that the game doesn't die in it's first or second year (and as a person burned by many MMOs that did just that, I definitely look at sub rates).

I think it burst a few people's bubbles when SE was touting 2.5 million registered users and they assumed active subs, then all of a sudden it's shown the number was in fact 500K.

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Originally Posted by Magis

It's not a dick waving contest like consoles... it's general worry of the health of an MMO. Maybe for some they don't give a shit cause they only play during patch releases, but sub numbers directly tie to if a MMO will survive the long term. Those that want to play a single MMO for years on out hope for large numbers and steady or climb subscriptions, so that the game doesn't die in it's first or second year (and as a person burned by many MMOs that did just that, I definitely look at sub rates).

I think it burst a few people's bubbles when SE was touting 2.5 million registered users and they assumed active subs, then all of a sudden it's shown the number was in fact 500K.

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Well WoW has to be sitting on atleast 60M registered users. It is not a misinformation to use that number, it's problem of people if they can't understand what that number means. OFC that it is always much much lower than the subscribers count.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

Well WoW has to be sitting on atleast 60M registered users. It is not a misinformation to use that number, it's problem of people if they can't understand what that number means. OFC that it is always much much lower than the subscribers count.

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At the same time, Blizzard publishes (or did, dunno now) their subscription rates split across the different region zones (US West, US East, China, EU IIRC). SE hadn't until now so it was basically guesswork until a solid number came out. I dunno if "misinformation" is the right word, but it is using an inflated stat to make the game seem like it's doing better than it is, with the real meat and potatoes being hidden (until now). They weren't lying, they were just using different info to woo consumers in. Many people had an overinflated idea of what the sub rates were from the arguments I got into with people on the forums saying just that :D.

I'd like to know if SE will split their China and other regions next time sub rates are published. Because of China's subscription system (you pay money whenever you want to play, their is no "sub"), they could again inflate their numbers. At least with it split you can see the overall picture.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

Well WoW has to be sitting on atleast 60M registered users. It is not a misinformation to use that number, it's problem of people if they can't understand what that number means. OFC that it is always much much lower than the subscribers count.

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As far as i'm aware that number is actually 100 million.

Does it matter what the numbers are? So long as there's enough to sustain the game I don't see whats wrong.

ESO/Wildstar might've have more players, but did that end up covering the production cost/advertisemnt/ etc of the game? Did they atleast break even or make a profit?