2.5 - Before the Fall

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Originally Posted by Balipu

Zodiark? Nah, probably 7.0 at the earliest. I mean where would you go after a dark god?

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The same place they went after coil; other powerful monsters/evil stuff/ancient stuff

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

The same place they went after coil; other powerful monsters/evil stuff/ancient stuff

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True, but Zodiark is pretty much the Dark Hydaelyn. To create a credible threat after him would require us to leave the planet.


"As I mentioned during my 19th LIVE letter, we’re planning to break up the spectacular conclusion of the current story into three updates."

This could be interpreted several way. Either a three part patch, or a two part patch and an expansion launch event.

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Originally Posted by AdamuKun322

It can't be Zodiark because I think that is going into somewhere in 3.0.

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Zodiark is technically just another Primal, 2.0 is meant to conclude the Primal threat storyline, so it's likely the Ascians/Zodiark will be dealt with by the end. They could always return though, I kind of get the feeling that Lahabrea is making his own plans...

That said, I doubt the Mystery Trial will be anything significant to the story, considering it is in 2.5 not 2.51+ where the story concludes... I find it far more likely it will be another Ultima Ballad style fight, perhaps with Gaius van Baelsar and his team of utter weaklings.

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Originally Posted by Balipu

I mean where would you go after a dark god?

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East, then to the past, then west, if Final Fantasy XI is anything to go off. Who's to say Zodiark is even the only dark god? They've got plenty they can do given XIVs fanservice nature.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Zodiark is technically just another Primal, 2.0 is meant to conclude the Primal threat

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I don't think we should be so sure of this, seeing as how two new Primals have already been announced for Heavensward. Maybe there will be less of a focus on them than before, but I don't think the concept is going away any time soon.

The mystery trial is Odin, I believe.

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Originally Posted by Naraku_Diabolos

The mystery trial is Odin, I believe.

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They have already said we are fighting an instanced Odin in 2.5. Not much of a mystery if the secrets out.

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Originally Posted by Naraku_Diabolos

The mystery trial is Odin, I believe.

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Urth's Fount is Odin...

There is a decent chance that this "Mystery Trial" will be Gilgamesh Extreme. Since Greg is still hanging around, and is obviously unhappy at us for defeating him way back in the first case, he'll probably send us a challenge to face him at his full power (IE, all 8 arms) at some point during or after the Hildibrand questline.

At least, that's my hope anyway. And I also hope he drops joke weapons, like Excalipoor, or Nragarok!

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Originally Posted by WellFooled

Maybe there will be less of a focus on them than before, but I don't think the concept is going away any time soon.

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I believe that's exactly what Yoshida said; they wont be the focus anymore, though Alexander is a thing now, so as usual I'm getting mixed messages from the guy...

I could actually see the Mystery Trial being Zodiark, since all the pieces for us defeating the Ascians are already in place save one, and I'm thinking the 2.51 story content is marking the return of Nidhogg, with "The Battle for Ishgard" being the dragons first assault, which we help repel resulting in Ishgard welcoming us in come 3.0. So 2.5 could resolve the Ascians storyline with 2.51 setting up the expansion. I'd still put my money on Ultima Ballad 2.0, though.

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Originally Posted by Naraku_Diabolos

The mystery trial is Odin, I believe.

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Originally Posted by DarkStar

There is a decent chance that this "Mystery Trial" will be Gilgamesh Extreme.

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http://i.imgur.com/qJNybDj.png?1

I was under the impression "Urth's Fount" and "Revenge of Gilgamesh" were self explanatory.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

http://i.imgur.com/qJNybDj.png?1

I was under the impression "Urth's Fount" and "Revenge of Gilgamesh" were self explanatory.

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To be fair, I had skimmed over most of the stuff from the last Live Letter, since I was really only interested in information on the new jobs. Still, good to see that Gilgamesh is definitely getting an Extreme Mode.

...Still hoping that he drops joke weapons. >w>

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Originally Posted by WellFooled

I don't think we should be so sure of this, seeing as how two new Primals have already been announced for Heavensward. Maybe there will be less of a focus on them than before, but I don't think the concept is going away any time soon.

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Not to mention anyone who still uses the 'just another Primal' argument wasn't paying much attention to the story. Moogle Mog and Shiva muddied the defintion of Primals quite a bit. First, we need to clear up what Primals are. Then we can end their threat.

By the by, three Primals have been announced, not two.

So any idea what the Battle of Ishgard is going to be?

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Originally Posted by Balipu

Moogle Mog and Shiva muddied the defintion of Primals quite a bit.

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How so? Primals are still just manifest belief through large quantities of Aether/Crystals.

Moogle Mog was effectively just an explanation on the origin of Primals (further explained in Final Coil with a bit of Bahamuts backstory), they worshiped a legend enough and managed to manifest it, turning Moogle Mog from a simple legend into an actual Primal. The Scions were confused because they're slow. Shiva was basically the same, only difference being everyone shat themselves because Iceheart was a person rather than a beast tribe... Apparently all the Scions forgot that time their Grandpa explained to them how they could summon the Twelve and how that actually did happen...

The only thing left to figure out is how we go about summoning them ourselves, which is no doubt what 2.5s main quests are going to revolve around given the Keeper of the Lakes involvement (Iceheart did tell us to go there to learn the truth). Once we can summon Primals they're not much of a threat anymore. In fact they become the weapon we use to defeat the Ascians, though again, the Scions are slow... While they were sitting there wondering how they could get a blade of concentrated Aether to kill Ascians with, I was shouting at my screen trying to tell them that Primals are concentrated Aether... "Come on you idiots! You even watched Leviathan end an immortal only to comment that it wouldn't work on Ascians because they can escape with their Dark Crystals... That's why you brought in this Auracite stuff to trap them!", seriously, it's like one step forward, two steps back with them... "We can probably kill Ascians if we can trap them!", "Now that we can trap Ascians... How do we kill them?" Sigh...

[QUOTE=Nalien;2688336]How so? Primals are still just manifest belief through large quantities of Aether/Crystals.

/QUOTE]

What I ment is that there aren't really Primals, just certain creatures and ideas that are summoned as Primals. As for calling creatures 'just primals', well it all depends on the ammount of aether used. Remember what happened to Bahamut at Carteneau?

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Originally Posted by Balipu

What I ment is that there aren't really Primals, just certain creatures and ideas that are summoned as Primals. As for calling creatures 'just primals', well it all depends on the ammount of aether used. Remember what happened to Bahamut at Carteneau?

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It's the definition of a Primal, a summoned creature made a god, as for Carteneaux you mean summoning the twelves ? They weren't truly summoned so that they wouldn't drain all th aether.

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Originally Posted by lololink

It's the definition of a Primal, a summoned creature made a god, as for Carteneaux you mean summoning the twelves ? They weren't truly summoned so that they wouldn't drain all th aether.

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No I ment his rather one sided fight with Louisouix.

Not gonna say more as I don't know how to do spoiler tags but I think you know what I'm trying to say.

Ooh this will be so SWEEET!

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Originally Posted by Balipu

By the by, three Primals have been announced, not two.

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True, I forgot about Alexander ><

There's a hint in the art book about something happening to Gridania in 3.0. I'm guessing that's the "fall" that this comes before.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Apparently all the Scions forgot that time their Grandpa explained to them how they could summon the Twelve and how that actually did happen...

I was shouting at my screen trying to tell them that Primals are concentrated Aether... Sigh...

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With the first part I think the old man made them forget what he did because recall they also forgot who the "heroes of light" were, that the players from 1.0 were not in the memories of anyone. If that much is true then it's also safe to say that he might lock away the knowledge of how to summon a primal because he doesn't want the Scions to rely on that. However seeing as SE (if they still have this planned) is still setting up to have roaming primals that can be challenged and then taken control of and used once for a big attack, then the finale of 2.5 may lead to that.

Which is where the second part comes in, using the Primals. But you have to recall, power corrupts, so to use the very source they had fought so hard to prevent isn't as simple as it sounds, in a way you start to enter a domain with high risk to it. Yes they could gather crystals and summon a primal, but then they are doing the same exact thing the beastmen were doing when they summoned the primal. However maybe this is where Odin falls into place. The reason we might be getting the Odin trial is because the Scion may consider him as a Primal that could be used against the Ascian, he came from nowhere and is the only primal to of not gone through a ritual to summon. He sort of just appeared after the incident with Dalamud.

The only other Primal that might serve to help the cause is Ramuh because out of all the Primals, Ramuh is the only one that appears to have sanity in a sense, he isn't as corrupt as the other Primals and I imagine he would be willing to lend his power to help take out the ascian.

So the truth is they don't have to summon a primal themselves, they could attempt to use Odin or ask Ramuh for help Though it is possible that the "special trial" may relate to the Ascian fight now that I think about it.

Though that's my guess with the way the Scion are acting, yes they could easily gather crystal to use a primal, but then they would be no different from the beastmen, and in the end their first purpose was to prevent/limit the damage caused by Primals so if they were to turn around and start using a Primal themselves not only would it go against what they stand for, but then the three nations who see the Scions as an independent group would have to consider taking actions for doing something as dangerous as summoning a Primal.

Really looking forward to Gold Saucer and Triple Triad but I'm not too happy they threw some cards in as dungeon loot. I'd have rather won them thru challenging NPC card battles =\

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Originally Posted by Nalien

seriously, it's like one step forward, two steps back with them... "We can probably kill Ascians if we can trap them!", "Now that we can trap Ascians... How do we kill them?" Sigh...

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In the same stroke they figured they could kill them after trapping them with a burst of aether, but how much and how to gather the energy was the issue. The method of summoning a primal isn't beyond them, the formula is simple. They watched the moogles pull one out of thin air and they see it coming from the beast tribes.

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The only other Primal that might serve to help the cause is Ramuh because out of all the Primals, Ramuh is the only one that appears to have sanity in a sense, he isn't as corrupt as the other Primals and I imagine he would be willing to lend his power to help take out the ascian.

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But Ramuh is dead, the only ones who summon him are the Sylphs, and anyone who's walked into the sylphlands know how annoying they are. Every primal seems to carry the same threat, it scares the shit out of everyone who didn't summon it, and there's always the possibility it's a temper-crazy nazi god. The problem with the civilized races using primals is that it's basically like handling nuclear weapons. The possibility for it to become a political problem is just too massive.

Maybe the Allagans had it right with the concept of Ultima weapon, just jack the power of the primals you dont like and install a dualshock 3, problem solved

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Originally Posted by Airget

The only other Primal that might serve to help the cause is Ramuh because out of all the Primals, Ramuh is the only one that appears to have sanity in a sense, he isn't as corrupt as the other Primals and I imagine he would be willing to lend his power to help take out the ascian.

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Well I'd go so far and say Shiva(Lady Iceheart) is just as sane and civil as Ramuh, she has complete control over the power of St. Shiva, and still is able to freely think for herself when she is "Shiva". She even wants us on "her side" to understand where she is coming from, but will battle us if it is necessary to carry out her plans to stop the Ishgardian/Dravanian war. She even asks us to seek the Keeper of the Lake in order to "Seek the truth w/ unclouded eyes".

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Originally Posted by Edellis

But Ramuh is dead, the only ones who summon him are the Sylphs, and anyone who's walked into the sylphlands know how annoying they are. Every primal seems to carry the same threat, it scares the shit out of everyone who didn't summon it, and there's always the possibility it's a temper-crazy nazi god. The problem with the civilized races using primals is that it's basically like handling nuclear weapons. The possibility for it to become a political problem is just too massive.

Maybe the Allagans had it right with the concept of Ultima weapon, just jack the power of the primals you dont like and install a dualshock 3, problem solved

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Ramuh isn't actually "dead". None of the Primals are forever gone. Any of the beast tribes, with the proper devoutness and crystals, can summon their "god" any time they wish. So the Sylphs could technically summon Ramuh at any time, or if we saw fit, we probably could learn more of how Lady Iceheart was able to summon Shiva. If push came to shove, and knowing Minfilia persuaded the rest of the scions w/ our help as the WoL, then there probably could be a desperate enough time, especially if it involved killing all the ascians for good, that we as the good guys summon primal aid.

Personally, especially coming from Y'shtola, I don't see us attempting an "Ultima weapon" tactic w/ using Primal power, if you pay attention to the 2.2 ending storyline w/ Leviathan and Limsa, you'll see Y'shtola doesn't quite see how it's always the beastmens fault in the summoning situation, and wonders if it's really their fault, or ours (well Limsa's). Also the fact that Ultima (and Omega) reek of Allagans (which we know now, were a corrupted and greedy civilization), we would not instill into something that involved their technology w/o some kind of modification from Cid, making it into more his/Eorzean style.

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Originally Posted by Yamimarik

Ramuh isn't actually "dead". None of the Primals are forever gone. Any of the beast tribes, with the proper devoutness and crystals, can summon their "god" any time they wish. So the Sylphs could technically summon Ramuh at any time, or if we saw fit, we probably could learn more of how Lady Iceheart was able to summon Shiva. If push came to shove, and knowing Minfilia persuaded the rest of the scions w/ our help as the WoL, then there probably could be a desperate enough time, especially if it involved killing all the ascians for good, that we as the good guys summon primal aid.

Personally, especially coming from Y'shtola, I don't see us attempting an "Ultima weapon" tactic w/ using Primal power, if you pay attention to the 2.2 ending storyline w/ Leviathan and Limsa, you'll see Y'shtola doesn't quite see how it's always the beastmens fault in the summoning situation, and wonders if it's really their fault, or ours (well Limsa's). Also the fact that Ultima (and Omega) reek of Allagans (which we know now, were a corrupted and greedy civilization), we would not instill into something that involved their technology w/o some kind of modification from Cid, making it into more his/Eorzean style.

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i think the game has done a decent job making it very clear that the beast tribes aren't entirely unjust in summoning their primals, especially in the kobolds case when it was essentially done in self defense, and in Ramuh's case when the Sylphs only asked for people to stay out of their land, yet still they end up with issues. Shiva isn't really a good example because despite her endgame being "the end of war", war is exactly what she was planning to enact, really making her no different from the other hostile primals.

Ultimately i don't see the Scions adopting either the primals or allag weapons that use the primals as a solution, unless they're backed into a corner with no other option. And even then, it couldn't possibly be a "Scion" or "Crystal Braves" decision -- it would have to be likely carried out by all 3 grand companies as one. Even now in defeating the Ascians they're using research into crystals.

I think if SE ends up following through with the whole "capture primals and use them in battle" idea, it will be in a storyline involving some external threat like Garlemald, where everyone in Eorzea would benefit from it happening. With the player being a godslayer, I just can't see any other threat large enough that would cause it to happen, and the Primals are the one thing unique to Eorzea. Because im pretty sure if Garlemald reeeellllyy wanted Eorzea, they'd crush the shit out of them.

I am really hoping that the patch is not being split into two separate patches to stretch out the time before the expansion.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

I am really hoping that the patch is not being split into two separate patches to stretch out the time before the expansion.

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That's exactly what is happening. Part 1 of 2.5 is when 2.5 hits, then we get the lil 2.51 update w/ the Golden Saucer/TT stuff added then 2.5(5?) will be part 2 of the patch as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Yamimarik

That's exactly what is happening. Part 1 of 2.5 is when 2.5 hits, then we get the lil 2.51 update w/ the Golden Saucer/TT stuff added then 2.5(5?) will be part 2 of the patch as a whole.

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Yes, and no. Assuming that the expansion will come in the same time frame as content patches have been done, they could easily release the 2.5 content patch and be done with it until the expansion is released three months later. Again, this is assuming that the expansion will be coming three months after the last content patch. What I was trying to get at was that I hope the patch isn't being deliberately being split because they need/ or is more time between the patch and the expansion than what people believe there is or will be. As of right now, they mentioned that the patch was going to be split because of the massiveness of the content as a whole. I just dont want to see them drop 2.5 later this month, 2.51 a month or more after than, and 2.55 more than two months after the initial patch.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

/snip

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It's already been announced since the Japan Fanfest. 2.5's main storyline content is being broken up into two parts. 2.5 receives the initial part, then 2.51 follows up with the Golden Saucer/Triple Triad, then 2.55(assuming, part 2 is 2.55) will wrap up the 2.5 storyline. 2.5 is also dropping the end of this month, the 20th of Jan.

And yes of course it is being split like that, it's the home stretch now into the new year for 3.0, so they're more than likely trying to space everything out to make sure people are entertained long enough until Heavensward is released. And it's very possible that the patch is that big as well that it's getting split up. There are a lot of loose ends needing to be tied up to finish out the entire 2.0 storyline as well as Crystal Towers storyline.

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Originally Posted by Yamimarik

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I think it is because Part 2 is not only the final part of 2.X Main Scenario but also a Major Event that will function like the End of an Era Event back in 1.0 (minus the entire world change part :P)

If you look at Heavensward's Teaser trailer now it does look like the Battle of Ishgard (or at least the events that may happen in the Battle of Ishgard)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68CNzwinqlg

On the primal bits a few posts back, the Scions, even if they had the power to summon primals, would not want to summon them unless they want to screw up the world's aether. Remember, primals consume a ton of aether just to sustain themselves (and Gardua wanted to have a freaking buffet of aether just cause) and unless I am missing something, there doesn't seem to be a way to send a primal back other than beating the crap out of it, so I don't primals would be happy if we summoned them then gave them a beat down.


There's also no current way of allowing primals to roam free without them consuming aether.

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Originally Posted by Malakai

Really looking forward to Gold Saucer and Triple Triad but I'm not too happy they threw some cards in as dungeon loot. I'd have rather won them thru challenging NPC card battles =\

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you will win cards in both ways.. through duels and drops.. which i think is kinda cool..

card drops are also quiet nice addition to traditional drops

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

There's also no current way of allowing primals to roam free without them consuming aether.

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They consume Aether in their summoning, after they're defeated that Aether slowly returns. If we summon them the same was Iceheart did, we can return the Aether by dismissing them, rather than having to fight them to the death. Remember, Iceheart was in complete control when she summoned Shiva, she effectively had the Primal on a leash, while all other Primals were just free to do whatever. If we summon them, there would be no reason for us to have to fight them at all.

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Originally Posted by Airget

With the first part I think the old man made them forget what he did because recall they also forgot who the "heroes of light" were, that the players from 1.0 were not in the memories of anyone.

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The odd thing is, Gaius van Baelsar remembers it... He clearly referenced it during Praetorium... Yet now we have a situation where the Scions (who've regained there memories following Praetorium, I might add) are going "We can summon as well?!", "Good thing the Garleans didn't learn of this!"... Heck, there was a quest in Little Ala Mhigo where there was a plot to summon one of the Twelve "similar to what happened at Carteneau"... I'm fairly sure it's all just a hilarious plot hole... The only thing the Scions should have been shocked about in 2.4 was Iceheart using her own body to summon Shiva, everything else has basically already happened...

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Originally Posted by Nuinn

Ugh.... Did we really need a separate mount (chocobo) for racing? =_= This annoys me.... Why can we have just one to bond with, aka the Grand Company chocobo? Should have given him racing stats and turned Legacy chocobos into Legacy barding :/

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YEAH ME AND BUTTSTALLION WISH TO RACE!

I still think Nero makes it out of WoD more or less alive and will be the one that mentors DRK in 3.0. I think he'll end up in Gridania since there's no tank guild there yet.

As to the Main Story surprise, I think that most people have felt a little conflicted fighting Shiva as her goals pretty much align with ours. The Keeper of the Lake will probably show us that the Dravanians are on our side - which is fairly obvious considering they fought against the Garlean invasion as well - and that the real issue is the religious nutters that control Ishgard. The Battle for Ishgard will be about changing that regime to one that is more friendly to outsiders (so we can get in) and which can reach a truce with the Dravanians (so we can get out into the skies beyond it without having to fight Dragons all the time). I assume that we'll have Frosty (Iceheart) on our side in that battle (though not in Shiva form). I suspect that we will find that the leadership in Ishgard is really in control of the Dravanian Horde, and uses them to justify their autocratic rule. So I suspect we will battle the Ishgard leadership, both in human and in dragon form.

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Originally Posted by Kyrausagi

YEAH ME AND BUTTSTALLION WISH TO RACE!

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butt stallion says hello!
(hes a unicorn made of diamonds)

I would love to see this Mount as an Achievment at the Goldsaucer!
It would be awesome if you could win this by reaching some Achievments at the Goldsaucer!
Please, let this dream come true! (Can´t stand actual mounts)

http://www.ffcompendium.com/misc/motorbike7-s2.jpg

At least it is the legendary GBIKE FROM THE GOLDSAUCER!!!

They sure have been slow to update Lodestone. Or a trailer....

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Originally Posted by Kyrausagi

YEAH ME AND BUTTSTALLION WISH TO RACE!

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Buttstallion, you say?
http://i60.tinypic.com/14ac6bs.jpg

That didn't look like anything like I thought it would...

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

They sure have been slow to update Lodestone. Or a trailer....

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Very true. Despite the fact we know Yoshi-P said it'll release on the 20th of january it all just feels... odd.