Who is gonna raid now with the iLvl 110 gear handed to people??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

If you go back far enough, people coveted other people over signs of fertility such as big hips and large mammary glands.

---

Given that we kind of need those to reproduce and exist as a species, yes. It's quite a bit different from desiring internet swords or large piles of green paper or gold, things we don't require for survival but demand in excess anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarzak

Going strong? Lol one would pay their subs and has been deemed a failure if you READ.

---

Gosh that little bit of sarcasm flew right over your head. Look, it's not my fault you're using a sliding scale for what F2P means. TOR is F2P because it supports your arguments and EQ2 is subscription based because it supports your arguments. I'm sure contradictions like this don't even register to you anymore. I mean afterall who cares if you're honest right, being a professional MMO forum arguer is about shouting down the opposition and scaring anyone who reads your post.

MMOs aren't all about raiding.

Some people get their satisfaction from clearing content, not from the carrot they get from it, and some people are just interested in the carrot. I'm fine with both groups coexisting, even though the second group will never be satisfied when this game is bound to become an endless treadmill for gear. What I'm not fine with is a single piece of ("casual" yet competitive) content eclisping almost everything else in terms of rewards.
To the people who are hurt that filthy casuals can now get the same ilv as raiders (if you've been raiding from the start of 2.2, you're probably gearing your second, third and fourth job by now unless unlucky but eh), welcome to catch-up patches. There will be tears when the items you're handed through quests are better than your raiding gear from previous raid tier when the first expansion drops, and I'm not looking forward to it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

MMOs aren't all about raiding.

---

I agree with this!
I'm not raiding cause 1. I don't have time and 2. Actually number 1 is enough
But I'm enjoying the game anyway, going for all the cute glamours, collecting minions and I actually like the hunt (in the morning when people seem to be more mature and helping eachother out)

The game is what you make it, and if raids is all you think the end game should have I think you might be playing the wrong game

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

If you look not only at what I've posted in the past but listen to my podcast as well, you will see I am supportive of more options for endgame and that the sands behind handed out like candy was a mistake especially with people cheating their way to get them asap. However, non-raiders (Casual and mainstream alike) want to feel a sense of progression, not a barrier. Raiders however are the bleeding edge of content. I mean heck, they technically got a HARDER second coil this patch. Considering this is the THIRD patch that's a rather big deal.

---

No offense meant but I don't have the time to look at every person that I reply to post history so I'll just take your word for it. I understand the need for a sense of progression but giving some the best iLvL item for nearly not the same effort at all is not the best of idea for the health of the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krr

I can't even begin to tell you how revisionist this narrative is. Post-Wrath WoW wasn't too easy; it was too twelve-damn boring and dry and Ghostcrawler couldn't get his head out of his rear when people told him the talent revamp totally ruined several specs.
The godawful lazy nostalgia design and obsessive recycling of dungeons and bosses nobody wanted to see or cared about again is what screwed up post-Cataclysm WoW, not some mystic plague of casuals that wanted to do ICC10 right before it became obsolete.

---

That's funny because a lot of what was done in WoW was to please the casual playerbase yet when given what they asked for, it's not what they exactly wanted. Big surprise there. Honestly, the rest of your post lost credibility once you've pointed Ghostcrawler. (Hint: WoW's decision making, heck every MMO's decision making is made as a team and not by a particular individual)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

MMOs aren't all about raiding.

---

Nor is it all about casuals thinking that anything that doesn't fit their ideology of fun isn't good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

I agree with your sentiment completely. However, don't you think it is absurd to institute such a strong catch up mechanism half way through a raid content cycle? I think most people expect catch-up mechanism when a new raid is released, not while players are still raiding that tier as the highest level of content.

---

It's completely stupid and they botched their rewards system hardcore, we're in agreement. People should not have been able to get sands that fast. They should have been able to get ilv110 through welfare systems during the 3-4 months of this patch cycle. That was the whole point of a tiered tome gear system, to let raiders have their fun first and keep raiding gear relevant throughout the tier.
Besides, there's already a cap in place to prevent people from gearing all their jobs (meaning capping out sands/oils will eventually happen), and I expect it to be removed when 2.4 hits. By that time, raiders should have most of their jobs at 100-110 while non raiders will only have 1 or 2.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kerrigen

It's completely stupid and they botched their rewards system hardcore, we're in agreement. People should not have been able to get sands that fast. They should have been able to get ilv110 through welfare systems during the 3-4 months of this patch cycle. That was the whole point of a tiered tome gear system, to let raiders have their fun first and keep raiding gear relevant throughout the tier.
Besides, there's already a cap in place to prevent people from gearing all their jobs, and I expect it to be removed when 2.4 hits. By that time, raiders should have most of their jobs at 100-110 while casuals will only have 1 or 2 (well, would have, if SE hadn't made it so you could get all the sands you need within a few days).

---

really? Is that what non-raiders are? Welfare collectors? I agree that sands/oils were handed out far to fast but is that really the best term for this?

Whenever I see someone in full soldiery gear, I /r/cringe. With sands and oils coming from hunts, my reaction still will not change. Let the hunters spam if they want.

I think what most people are upset with in regards to gear is the timing of the "catch-up" phase. I among many others feel it was done too early. Placing the echo in coil 1 two weeks after coil 2 was released was brilliant timing imo. It gives the hardcore players a chance to work on new content, while giving other players a chance to catch up. If they had released sands/oils into the hunts "after" the release of coil 2 when the new level cap is ilvl130 I would have been perfectly content with them giving handouts to lazy players. I say lazy because lets be honest...raiding takes very minimal time. Unless your part of blue garter or one of the other hardcore end-game FC, many typical raiders raid on average of 5-6 hours per week.

Why are casual players so afraid of letting the higher skilled players have better gear than them. As others have said, if your not raiding then really there isn't much point to having i110 gear. The most challenging dungeon outside of raids requires ilvl 70. At ilvl100 your gear is 30 levels over the minimum of what you need. Is that not enough?

Also before people complain about *entitled this....elitist that* I have yet to clear t8 and have only cleared t7 twice. Yet, despite this, even I feel that gear is being handed out too freely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

Posting stuff on this forum is not about being right or wrong.

---

You don't have to explain to me that you're just here to signal boost and of course you'd step in to defend someone who is being knowingly disingenuous. That's just who you are.

Speaking for myself. Proper progression raiding doesn't interest me in the slightest. Granted, I haven't been playing FFXIV as long as some people and still learning things here and there.
There's enough in this game to keep me engaged ( still yet to level my crafts and gathering and more )

@ Nel Celestine - small world huh ? I was grouped up with you in a ST run a couple of nights back ;3 yeah yeah the other smn ;p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

really? Is that what non-raiders are? Welfare collectors? I agree that sands/oils were handed out far to fast but is that really the best term for this?

---

That's what some raiders say. As a joke, mostly. Keep cool. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freyah

@ Nel Celestine - small world huh ? I was grouped up with you in a ST run a couple of nights back ;3 yeah yeah the other smn ;p

---

Wow! small world indeed. Still don't have the minion T___T

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Worm

You don't have to explain to me that you're just here to signal boost and of course you'd step in to defend someone who is being knowingly disingenuous. That's just who you are.

---

Yep, that's me. Your powers to ascertain are so similar to that of kanye west and fish sticks. There is absolutely nothing else to me. I have no redeeming qualities. Just some rando forum guy that does not see eye to eye with you. Naturally that equates me to ted bundy or some other negative historical figure.

Opinions different == bad person.

Lawl, jesus christ.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dwill

That's funny because a lot of what was done in WoW was too please the casual playerbase yet when given what they asked for, it's not what they exactly wanted.

---

I don't know why you keep bringing up WoW a game that for the majority of it's life had raid gear on vendors.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

Opinions different == bad person.

---

No defending and supporting this ridiculous "what ever must be done" forum Fatwah is what makes you a bad person. I mean I assume you think it's fair game to lie about EQ2 being a subscription based game, right? Afterall there's no 'right or wrong' if you can slip in a little untruth to make your hot internet opinion seem hotter, no one gets hurt in the end right?

Edit: I love how there is good people and Ted Bundy in your world. You're just a plain old jerk. That's all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

Wow! small world indeed. Still don't have the minion T___T

---

omg! I have that minion - had it a few days now ;3
Just running it for the casters belt and the oil ( can't be bothered with the casters helm it look yukky ( imo ), others will disagree ;p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

Yep, that's me. Your powers to ascertain are so similar to that of kanye west and fish sticks. There is absolutely nothing else to me. I have no redeeming qualities. Just some rando forum guy that does not see eye to eye with you. Naturally that equates me to ted bundy or some other negative historical figure.

---

I LOL'D hard when Kanye West was equated to fish sticks.

To me, all this argument has led me to see both sides as this: http://youtu.be/Bto7vH-rz-E?t=51s

Some people want roast beef, some people want chicken sandwiches. People trying to enforce roast beef on those who want chicken sandwiches isn't going to work out too well. Neither is people who want chicken sandwiches resisting roast beef. In the end, we'll all end up going to bed.

Can we just be satisfied we even got anything to begin with?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Worm

I don't know why you keep bringing up WoW a game that for the majority of it's life had raid gear on vendors.

---

WoW's raid gear equivalent on vendor is the equivalent of this game's Weathered Gear which I've got nothing against. Nice try though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dwill

WoW's raid gear equivalent on vendor is the equivalent of this game's Weathered Gear. Nice try though.

---

Huh? But 251 dropped inside a raid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Worm

I don't know why you keep bringing up WoW a game that for the majority of it's life had raid gear on vendors.


No defending and supporting this ridiculous "what ever must be done" forum Fatwah is what makes you a bad person. I mean I assume you think it's fair game to lie about EQ2 being a subscription based game, right? Afterall there's no 'right or wrong' if you can slip in a little untruth to make your hot internet opinion seem hotter, no one gets hurt in the end right?


Edit: I love how there is good people and Ted Bundy in your world. You're just a plain old jerk. That's all.

---

Where do I defend the evidence that he used to make that point? Go quote it and I will apologize. Otherwise, you are just making shit up.

Grasp at straws all you like. Call me all the names you like. P2P and some F2P games gives the best and most powerful rewards to people who do the highest level of content. It's par for the course and you're defending some ass backward logic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

Where do I defend the evidence that he used to make that point? Go quote it and I will apologize. Otherwise, you are just making shit up.

---

I love how you are complaining about tired forum rhetoric while asking me to show you the Internet evidence. You stepped in on my most well deserved tongue lashing of someone who was misrepresenting facts and made a reply about how there's "No right or wrong". I mean maybe you just don't care about misrepresentation if the person agrees you, afterall you are doing your damnedest to save MMOs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

Call me all the names you like.

---

Well let me remind you word-in-mouth-putter you were the one who originally decided I was trying to suggest you were Ted Bundy, I just corrected your assumption.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

P2P and some F2P games gives the best and most powerful rewards to people who do the highest level of content. It's par for the course and you're defending some ass backward logic.

---

Well yeah at first, but eventually after a few patches those rewards are opened up to more and more people. That's the par for the course. Flipping out about upgraded tokens is just an aspect of you wanting to stir up shit and signal boost your raid ideas to the devs(which they'll probably never listen to).

Honestly I agree with a lot of what you say, but not how you say it. I also don't think anyone should be getting this damn upset about some upgrade tokens. Putting them on hunts was a bad idea but it's not worth embarrassing yourself over. Have fun arguing though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freyah

omg! I have that minion - had it a few days now ;3
Just running it for the casters belt and the oil ( can't be bothered with the casters helm it look yukky ( imo ), others will disagree ;p

---

You lucky... D: I've only seen that thing drop once, and I only rolled a 40 on it... Personally I'm primarily interested in the healer boots, on SCH I'm -still- using a pair of HQ pentameld i70's I crafted for myself months ago...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Worm

Huh? But 251 dropped inside a raid.

---

And it wasn't the highest ilvl gear from top end content of the time. That's what you're missing. The "welfare" gear as some like to call it was never on the same level as the best gear you could get.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Item_level In fact it was pretty much the bottom end for raiding of that time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Worm

Well yeah at first, but eventually after a few patches those rewards are opened up to more and more people. That's the par for the course. Flipping out about upgraded tokens is just an aspect of you wanting to stir up shit and signal boost your raid ideas to the devs(which they'll probably never listen to).

Honestly I agree with a lot of what you say,but not how you say it. I also don't think anyone should be getting this damn upset about some upgrade tokens. Putting them on hunts was a bad idea but it's not worth embarrassing yourself over. Have fun arguing though.

---

It's a matter of the reward schedule. Every sane high end raider know their current "Carrot" becomes much easier to obtain when new raids come out. This is not the situation we have going on here. The raiding carrot, as it pertains to gear, is only a weapon. This is happening while the raid in question is the highest level of content available.

SE could mail people ilvl110 gear for all I care, once a new raid tier is out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ispano

And it wasn't the highest ilvl gear from top end content of the time. That's what you're missing. The "welfare" gear as some like to call it was never on the same level as the best gear you could get.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Item_level In fact it was pretty much the bottom end for raiding of that time.

---

This is pretty much it right here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brine_Gildchaff

You lucky... D: I've only seen that thing drop once, and I only rolled a 40 on it... Personally I'm primarily interested in the healer boots, on SCH I'm -still- using a pair of HQ pentameld i70's I crafted for myself months ago...

---

Did 3 runs earlier 1 had the minion, another 2 had unidentified tome and the other a oil. Those healing boots sure drop quite a lot from what I've seen so far ( seen the whole set drop on a single run ) and I think the minion's contained in the extra chest that sometimes spawns ( sure someone will correct me on this ) and doesn't count toward your weekly loot lockout should you win it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

It's a matter of the reward schedule. Every sane high end raider know their current "Carrot" becomes much easier to obtain when new raids come out. This is not the situation we have going on here. The raiding carrot, as it pertains to gear, is only a weapon. This is happening while the raid in question is the highest level of content available.

SE could mail people ilvl110 gear for all I care, once a new raid tier is out.



This is pretty much it right here.

---

I can't believe you're so blind as to look at the hunt reward schedule in comparison to the REST of FFXIV and assume it's functioning exactly as intended as oppopsed to a mistake that they will rectify with the next level of tiered content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ispano

And it wasn't the highest ilvl gear from top end content of the time. That's what you're missing. The "welfare" gear as some like to call it was never on the same level as the best gear you could get.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Item_level In fact it was pretty much the bottom end for raiding of that time.

---

This x 10,000. It's not that they are giving away free gear...they are giving away free gear too early. If they had waited until 2.4 was released to do this then no one would be complaining.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freyah

Did 3 runs earlier 1 had the minion, another 2 had unidentified tome and the other a oil. Those healing boots sure drop quite a lot from what I've seen so far ( seen the whole set drop on a single run ) and I think the minion's contained in the extra chest that sometimes spawns ( sure someone will correct me on this ) and doesn't count toward your weekly loot lockout should you win it.

---

I can confirm the "doesn't count toward weekly loot lockout" part, it dropped today and there was no text indicating that it would lock you out if you rolled on it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freyah

Did 3 runs earlier 1 had the minion, another 2 had unidentified tome and the other a oil. Those healing boots sure drop quite a lot from what I've seen so far ( seen the whole set drop on a single run ) and I think the minion's contained in the extra chest that sometimes spawns ( sure someone will correct me on this ) and doesn't count toward your weekly loot lockout should you win it.

---

Right, I knew about that. I've yet to see the boots drop though even once, and this is my second week of Syrcus runs. (First week I panicked a little and ended up greeding on a pair of Phlegethon gauntlets... only to discover I was the only one who did. And then the UAT -and- Oil dropped on the same run. :<) I just mean I've only seen the minion drop once -ever- so far and I rolled really poorly on it.

Would the Hunt rewards be argued about if, say, they gave an item to turn in for i110 gear that didn't have the same STATS as weathered/HA gear? Is it the iLvL that's the problem or the stats on the gear the problem?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Giantbane

I can't believe you're so blind as to look at the hunt reward schedule in comparison to the REST of FFXIV and assume it's functioning exactly as intended as oppopsed to a mistake that they will rectify with the next level of tiered content.

---

I think a better point to make is why a multimillion dollar game company could not see the potential abuse of hunts coming before they released it.

Nothing surprises me anymore with SE. It would not surprise me if they made similar mistakes in the future with catch up mechanisms!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

Would the Hunt rewards be argued about if, say, they gave an item to turn in for i110 gear that didn't have the same STATS as weathered/HA gear? Is it the iLvL that's the problem or the stats on the gear the problem?

---

Item level is what determines the maximum stats an item has. So two, say, Monk Body Pieces of the same item level will have the same str and vit. And the sub stats, whatever they may be, will be balanced around that item level. But the main thing is the primary stat, since that matters far more than any sub stat combo.

Not a fan of raiding, never have been, and I promised myself I wasn't going to get dragged into it with this game, soooooo, suits me just fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brine_Gildchaff

Right, I knew about that. I've yet to see the boots drop though even once, and this is my second week of Syrcus runs. (First week I panicked a little and ended up greeding on a pair of Phlegethon gauntlets... only to discover I was the only one who did. And then the UAT -and- Oil dropped on the same run. :<) I just mean I've only seen the minion drop once -ever- so far and I rolled really poorly on it.

---

Keep running it as much as you can, those boots will drop again and at the moment ST seems to be flavor of the month, queue times aren't so long

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ispano

Item level is what determines the maximum stats an item has. So two, say, Monk Body Pieces of the same item level will have the same str and vit. And the sub stats, whatever they may be, will be balanced around that item level. But the main thing is the primary stat, since that matters far more than any sub stat combo.

---

Yes, but say the gears available via hunts wasn't the weathered/tome gear, yet still i110 with different/unpreferred stats. Would there have still been an argument about it?

As I posted before about the whole roast beef-chicken sandwich dilemma, what if that chicken sandwich was instead a bowl of porridge? Not everyone likes it, but it's still something. Are we arguing about iLvL or stats? Consider the whole i90 Allagan/i90 AF2 gear situation. Was there an argument on that? I'm not being snarky, I actually want to know if there was an argument about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ispano

Actually, the OP is right, it will cause people to start doing coil less, just like Myth gear did to First Coil.

---

The intention of this gear is to EASE coil, for those who find it difficult, seeing as The Binding Coils of Bahamut are meant to be a challenge with a reward, of course people are still going to do coil.

As well as this a lot of BiS (Best in Slot) items come from ScoB.


And nothing else in-game compares to the High Allagan Weapons, that's e-peen and top-tier weaponry right there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shioban

The intention of this gear is to EASE coil, for those who find it difficult, seeing as The Binding Coils of Bahamut are meant to be a challenge with a reward, of course people are still going to do coil.

As well as this a lot of BiS (Best in Slot) items come from ScoB.


And nothing else in-game compares to the High Allagan Weapons, that's e-peen and top-tier weaponry right there.

---

1 piece of gear is not worth giving the all this i110 around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Worm

Huh? But 251 dropped inside a raid.

---

You're pretty good at destroying your own argument. That gear wasn't close to being as good as the top end gear of that tier.

Care to try again ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

I think a better point to make is why a multimillion dollar game company could not see the potential abuse of hunts coming before they released it.

Nothing surprises me anymore with SE. It would not surprise me if they made similar mistakes in the future with catch up mechanisms.

---

Remember when it was hard to even queue up because SE didn't anticipate anyone actually playing their game? They miss stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

Yes, but say the gears available via hunts wasn't the weathered/tome gear, yet still i110 with different/unpreferred stats. Would there have still been an argument about it?

As I posted before about the whole roast beef-chicken sandwich dilemma, what if that chicken sandwich was instead a bowl of porridge? Not everyone likes it, but it's still something. Are we arguing about iLvL or stats? Consider the whole i90 Allagan/i90 AF2 gear situation. Was there an argument on that? I'm not being snarky, I actually want to know if there was an argument about it.

---

Yes, it would have still caused the argument. Since by being i110 they have the same primary stats as any other i110 pieces for the same role and slot. Non preferred sub stats have very minimal effect, not even the 10% someone mentioned, it's more like 5% at best.