Complain all you want..

I think they've made useless things useful and useful things useless.

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Originally Posted by GerMagic

This. The community destroys every MMO. Everyone keeps complaining like a little 3 y.o. and then Blizzard/SE/all the other companies "fix" it for those that complained the most. Of course that dissatisfies another group, which then complains until it's "fixed" again. Rinse and repeat.

Guys, this is an MMO. If you want everything go cheat in a single player game. Everyone should try to enjoy this. If you NEED to get every piece of equipment, well, you will have to do something you don't like in pretty much every game. Play like you enjoy it. Noones forced to grind these, noones forced to farm coil, noones forced to do anything. Everyone that's complaining here should question themselves, if FF XIV is a game or if they mistook it for their lives.
(and no, not a flame "lol, play less" - I'm currently spending a ton of time on this game, but I'm not bothering with these FATEs since I don't like it, end of the story.)

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^^ This person speaks sense!!
The people saying it was a bad move are stupid, they are pointing out that they can get allagan/withered weapons with barely any work lol... So erm... Why are you complaining exactly!? If you can get weapons which are same stats or even more powerful elsewhere then go do exactly that, while you're at it leave the people that enjoy working for something alone instead of trying to mess it up with your flawed logic. Fools *sigh*

Like others have mentioned the problem with this system is a measured sense of progress. Completing a fate after fate hoping that the next one isn't something that will keep the majority of the playerbase happy for long. It also keeps them from seeing and enjoying the other content in the game due to their constant struggles with this system.

Some people have said that this system is perfect and is made for the long term. Really? Can those of you that think this honestly say with a great deal of certainty that the same number of 50s will be zerging these fates 6 months from now? A year from now?

I don't want things handed to me, but like myself, I do want to see some kind of visual representation of a goal being progressed upon to validate the use of my time.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

Like others have mentioned the problem with this system is a measured sense of progress. Completing a fate after fate hoping that the next one isn't something that will keep the majority of the playerbase happy for long. It also keeps them from seeing and enjoying the other content in the game due to their constant struggles with this system.

Some people have said that this system is perfect and is made for the long term. Really? Can those of you that think this honestly say with a great deal of certainty that the same number of 50s will be zerging these fates 6 months from now? A year from now? *snip*.

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In 6 months to a year they would probably have more content/changes that will make things easier ready for next step of atma + other stuff... On that note people have been grinding CT/coil on a daily basis to max out their mythology tomestones for months to gain "end game" gear js

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Originally Posted by KupoNuts

"OMG Square, I only log in on Mondays and I have nothing left to do for entire week! Change it or I quit!"

*Square adds long term goal and a reason to log in every day*

"OMG Square what is this sh*t I can't play every day! Change it or I quit!"

:rolleyes:

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This is the second mmo I ever play, I played wow vanilla like 8 years ago or so. Grinding for a few hours to get something is nothing. It took me 6-8months to get my first epic piece since I got to level 60 in wow, and people are complaining already? Like three days after patch release. No one complained about stuff like that 8 years ago, everyone kept doing dungeons and dungeons til they finally got what they wanted.
I think most people here see the game as a single player game and they forget about other aspects of the game, such as the social one and they just want the best gear 3 days after the patch

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Originally Posted by UmbraAmara

In 6 months to a year they would probably have more content/changes that will make things easier ready for next step of atma + other stuff...

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This is my point. If they, SE, are of the mindset that they will need to change it 6 months from now, why not just start off with a system that will have more longevity? They could have easily divided the atmas up between fates, dungeons, and 8 man content instead of just dumping it solely in fates.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

This is my point. If they, SE, are of the mindset that they will need to change it 6 months from now, why not just start off with a system that will have more longevity? They could have easily divided the atmas up between fates, dungeons, and 8 man content instead of just dumping it solely in fates.

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Yes true they could have. However it would usually be released like this so that hardcore players cannot max out on everything in such a short amount of time as we would see in most games. If they made it easy I can almost 100% say that there will be thread with more casual gamers complaining. The problem I see with it being in instances is simply that those more hardcore players would just spam instances instead to build tomestones and get atma.. AND someone will complain about that too lol. The thing about a gaming community is that you will always have people that are not happy regardless of what the developer does for them as its all about them not the rest of the gamers.

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

This is the second mmo I ever play, I played wow vanilla like 8 years ago or so. Grinding for a few hours to get something is nothing. It took me 6-8months to get my first epic piece since I got to level 60 in wow, and people are complaining already? Like three days after patch release. No one complained about stuff like that 8 years ago, everyone kept doing dungeons and dungeons til they finally got what they wanted.
I think most people here see the game as a single player game and they forget about other aspects of the game, such as the social one and they just want the best gear 3 days after the patch

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There is a difference between dungeons and FATEs, one is amusing, one is mind-numbingly boring.

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Originally Posted by Jaybot

A few of my friends are unsubbing after this month because of the new changes, and grind. I will probably join them too. If Square can afford to lose a part of it's player base, it's their loss.

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LOL!

Meanwhile, I'm loving this patch

http://i.imgur.com/6rylDfJ.png

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Originally Posted by UmbraAmara

Yes true they could have. However it would usually be released like this so that hardcore players cannot max out on everything in such a short amount of time as we would see in most games. If they made it easy I can almost 100% say that there will be thread with more casual gamers complaining. The problem I see with it being in instances is simply that those more hardcore players would just spam instances instead to build tomestones and get atma.. AND someone will complain about that too lol.

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True. The thing is, however, that having players focus solely on obtaining these items from fates is essentially keeping them from doing any of the other content from the patch. Yes, if the atma were in dungeons people would be flocking to them. But at least then they are killing two birds with one stone. And yes, people would also be using this to max out their tomestones. But, then again, they were already going to do that anyway.

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Originally Posted by Kluya15

LOL!

Meanwhile, I'm loving this patch

http://i.imgur.com/6rylDfJ.png

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Now do it 8 more times! :)

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Originally Posted by Hayward

I suppose you want a medal for that, don't you? Just because people don't have the time or inclination to do the equivalent of climbing Mount Everest doesn't make them lazy or whatever talking points the no-lifer forums are putting out these days. No one sane should ever have to, much less want to, go through what many people in XI had to endure, especially during the early years.

The FATE system might not have been an ideal place to implement the Atma quest, but heaven knows an HNM system would have been far worse.

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Judging by how many Level 50's you have, you have all the time in the world, I see other people saying the same thing with tons of 50 jobs, you are just making excuses to not do fates.

A whopping 14 and one 46 level job, ain't that crazy maybe you shouldn't say anything.

I don't see how my number of level 50 jobs enters into your dishonest viewpoint that anyone who wants to see a better way to improve their Relic weapons is "lazy". I'd suggest you find a more solid way to defend that dishonest argument.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

I suppose you want a medal for that, don't you? Just because people don't have the time or inclination to do the equivalent of climbing Mount Everest doesn't make them lazy or whatever talking points the no-lifer forums are putting out these days. No one sane should ever have to, much less want to, go through what many people in XI had to endure, especially during the early years.

The FATE system might not have been an ideal place to implement the Atma quest, but heaven knows an HNM system would have been far worse.

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Not that I have any idea what all the Atma is about (I don't play anymore), but I think an HNM system (in FFXIV 1.0~ style) sounds awesome. It would have to be tweaked to ensure the majority of people didn't rage on day one (like now), but it could work with 1.0's pop timers, maybe throw in multiple HNMs (NMs? Because we don't really have NMs anymore for there to be HNMs around...) that have a chance of dropping the same thing so everyone isn't fighting over the exact same monster over and over.

Better yet, they could set up a quest (with a story line? Please?) to obtain a pop item that would allow you and a group to spawn an NM that has a chance of dropping multiple useful items with a chance of atma dropping as well. They could also simplify it by making it a special Leve Quest so that no new systems need to be created (kinda the same as FATE).

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Originally Posted by Hayward

The FATE system might not have been an ideal place to implement the Atma quest, but heaven knows an HNM system would have been far worse.

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"HNM" system in 1.x was perfectly fine. Care to try that again?

"ZNM" is perfectly fine (XI system, by the way.)

"VWNM" is perfectly fine. (XI system, by the way.)

Abyssea NMs were perfectly fine. Did you know? Those are all "HNM" systems that you can spawn yourself..?

I can tell you horror stories from 3 of those systems in XI that would send you running away from ANY thoughts of implementing any of them.

HNM: You must have a bot program itching to be used to be hyping up an HNM system. That approach in XI was a disaster from day one and the only ones who endorse it are the ones who had the best bots to claim them.

ZNM: No way in any of the seven hells do I want this train wreck anywhere NEAR Eorzea. Between expensive equipment (gil sink), insufficient rewards for the pictures (time sink), and the ridiculous drop rates (RNG hell), don't even bring this up and expect serious consideration.

VWNM: Seriously?

Abyssea: This is about the only sane point you've made. The NM tree wasn't ridiculously difficult and the drop rates were reasonable.

Well, all I know is that I thoroughly enjoy the game. :/ It's a shame some people don't, but personally I've never been more certain about subscribing than I am now. I've got a great FC that suits me perfectly, and I enjoy pretty much all aspects of the game at my own pace. Doing dungeons, primals, working on lower lvl classes, crafting, some gathering, decorating the house, tending to them litte crops in our garden patch, screenshotting, and then them Hildibrand quests.... Seriously, I like it. :)

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Originally Posted by Eardstapa

I have kept count, I started at 724 FATE/1000, I am up to 1,435. 4 Atma to my name, none have dropped outside of the first day. But hey, I'm progressing, right guys?!

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You've obtained 4 items out of 12, so yes. You are. By definition.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

-Snip-

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So it seems aside the botting (that only really happened in Garuda and Ifrit Extreme by certain linkshells that won't be named), your issue appears to be the difficulty and drop rates. Now, why would they implement the drop rate along with the systems in a different game for example? The systems were perfectly fine, VW even has the better system of the bunch, the issue most had were the drop rates.

My point was, HNM systems are perfectly fine, they all don't revolve around "bot claiming".

Nice. When you and yours take off we might see the lag drop off. That would be good.

Why not just farm Turn 5 once the echo buff is introduced? Aren't the stats comparable on most weapons?

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Originally Posted by Lance_Uppercut

Why not just farm Turn 5 once the echo buff is introduced? Aren't the stats comparable on most weapons?

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You have options - Thing is, Relics will continue to be upgraded and if you don't do it now, sure they'll nerf it down to the point you can probably breeze through some of it, but you'll just fall behind and have more to do. That kind of "content" is artificial. What if in 2.3 and 2.4 Relics are the superior option? You then have to grind through Atma, Animus and Zeromus stages >.>

The complaints is about the RNG. Don't say it's a long process if it's only a long process if you have bad luck. People are putting in 8 hours or less and finishing and others are putting in 30+ hours and not 1/2 way. Both doing the same amount of work in the process per Fate, but one is breezing through and the other is being raped by RNG.

The Atma process is a tmesink where you cannot progress on any other content in the game while u work on it. Those that get doen with the Atma process in a substantially shorter amount of time because of RNG then hit the universal and fair long process of the Mythology accrual. However, those RNG lucky people are able to progress in many facets of the game while accruing Myth. They can cap their Soldiery while they work on Myth, they can accrue rare map materials while accruing Myth, they can do their dailies and still obtain a minimal amount of Myth. While people with bad luck are stuck on the RNG of the Atma process they gain virtually nothing besides a miniscual amout of gil and a miniscual amount of seals. The gil and seals can be obtained exponentially faster just by doing dungeons. Trade the loot for seals at a much higher rate than the Atma RNG, what little gil u accumulate in dungeons ist still more than Atma RNG Fates, add the roulette gil bonuses and it's substantially more. Especially considering the Fate gil is so low it doesnt even really compensate for i90 gear damage.

Whatever happened to this game not becoming FFXI 2.0? The Atma, mirror of the whorl, unidentified allagan tomestone, and high allagan RNG making it to where u cannot progress beyond i90 without RNG. The new crafting tools forcing u to focus on a specific craft no different from FFXI.

Hilarious. People are seriously mad because they haven't gotten all their atmas THREE DAYS AFTER THE PATCH WENT LIVE.

I for one, are certainly glad these kind of people are quitting.

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Originally Posted by Zaels

Hilarious. People are seriously mad because they haven't gotten all their atmas THREE DAYS AFTER THE PATCH WENT LIVE.

I for one, are certainly glad these kind of people are quitting.

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The complaint isn't about not having it, it's about revolving around a RNG system where others do have it. If they had actually developed a process where noone had it then alot of people wouldn't be complaining.

The Myth accrual is a long process, a 'sweat of your brow' process where you are rewarded based on your effort. Atmas, Mirrors, Unidentifieds, High Allagan is RNG not earned. Each of these on their own is RNG, grats to those that are lucky. The problem is that those are the only weapons possible to be obtained over i90 so nothing above i90 can be earned regardless of the bad luck one experiences.

How about a system that does have the RNG drops, but also a set where you automatically get it as a buffer?
That way, we don't loose the thrill of surprise if it comes early, but people have a set list to work towards.

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Originally Posted by Zaels

Hilarious. People are seriously mad because they haven't gotten all their atmas THREE DAYS AFTER THE PATCH WENT LIVE.

I for one, are certainly glad these kind of people are quitting.

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They're complaining about how depended it is on RNG for first part of upgrading Relic from ilvl 90 to ilvl 100.

Getting your Relic to Atma is not enough because once it is upgraded to Atma you will still have the Ilvl 90 stats until you begin the process of upgrading Atma to Animus through the Animus Books with each cost 1500 myth per book so the Relic stats can be ilvl 100 stats.

Each book (costing 1500 myth) will only add +2 ??? stats to your Atma and once you complete all the Books the Atma will be changed into Animus.

The upgrade process of Atma to Animus is about a week or more worth of work anyways since you are given task covering battle leves, Dungeons, FATES, and Monster kills per book.

The RNG maybe increased each Major update until it hits a 100% drop rate later but we will have to wait and see.

(For now I'm just waiting for a new class to play as since none of the current classes/jobs interests me so there no need for me to start running Atma upgrade and Animus upgrade to waste alway the 13,500 myth required for the ilvl 100 relic.)

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Originally Posted by Gramul

How about a system that does have the RNG drops, but also a set where you automatically get it as a buffer?
That way, we don't loose the thrill of surprise if it comes early, but people have a set list to work towards.

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That would be the ideal, common sense system most people are into. Granted this dev team is more or less the exact personification of the adage "Common sense is not always common." I personally feel like doing 100 FATEs in an area should be the demarcation point for such a system, but I am amendable to more than that. I've certainly done more than 100 in an area without a drop already, so that's not changing much for me. Either way, at least there is a failsafe for those of us not born under some magnanimous RNG star.

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Originally Posted by Fayto

You've obtained 4 items out of 12, so yes. You are. By definition.

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But I also haven't found any more than that within the amount I have done as of late, so by definition, after the initial 4, I have made zero progress. The same I would make by not doing it.

and when you spent these 30-60 hours of your lifetime for stupid grinding -
lifetime that you won't ever get back -
i want you to ask yourselves if that was really worth it.

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Originally Posted by Phe

and when you spent these 30-60 hours of your lifetime for stupid grinding -
lifetime that you won't ever get back -
i want you to ask yourselves if that was really worth it.

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You're spending your life on a game nevertheless - is it really worth it?

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Originally Posted by Eardstapa

But I also haven't found any more than that within the amount I have done as of late, so by definition, after the initial 4, I have made zero progress. The same I would make by not doing it.

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You obtained 4.

Not 0.

4 out of 12.

By definition in the English language, at least, that's called progress.

Ya 4 out of 12 is still progress.

It can only be considered not a progress if you have not obtained 1 soul after 1 weeks time period.

I dont see why people are complaining about atma progress, do it while you accomplish other things and then voila, it is no longer a chore and you get it in time. you have 3 weeks until you have the soldiery tomes to actually make the weapon useful (atma is ilvl 100 but holds no benefit). For an example, I got the time to do my hildibrand quest line which took me to upper la noscea, popped in a random fate, Boom got my atma of lion.

You are not supposed to grind your brains out on these fates instead of do other content, it is an over time activity. If you are complaining about wasting time you should reevaluate how you're spending it in a) a forum like this and b) any video game what so ever (if you're not getting paid)

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Originally Posted by Okazaki

I dont see why people are complaining about atma progress, do it while you accomplish other things and then voila, it is no longer a chore and you get it in time. you have 3 weeks until you have the soldiery tomes to actually make the weapon useful (atma is ilvl 100 but holds no benefit). For an example, I got the time to do my hildibrand quest line which took me to upper la noscea, popped in a random fate, Boom got my atma of lion.

You are not supposed to grind your brains out on these fates instead of do other content, it is an over time activity. If you are complaining about wasting time you should reevaluate how you're spending it in a) a forum like this and b) any video game what so ever (if you're not getting paid)

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Animus uses myth, not soldiery

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

Animus uses myth, not soldiery

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That and that you will need 9 books to upgrade Atma into Animus being that you will need a total of 13,500 Myth Tomes so Atma can become Animus with each book have 4 different tasks covering Battle leve, Dungeons, FATES, and Monster kills.

I don't think people understand sarcasm.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Ya 4 out of 12 is still progress.

It can only be considered not a progress if you have not obtained 1 soul after 1 weeks time period.

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No, that isn't how it works. It just means your progressed has slowed, not that it has stopped.

No i understand what he means by 4/12 is still no progress. Because it is RNG. Say someone has 6/12 in lets say 12 hours. If it takes him 100 more hours to get the other 6 because of RNG, he wasn't 1/2 way done. Thats like saying u get one powerball number right and u made progress on the next time it draws even though u earned no reward. It isn't progress because each individual instance is a variant RNG.

And since it is RNG, if u dont get the drop there is no progress therefore it is stopped and not slowed. It's either RNG popped or it doesn't, since there is no cumulative tally to compensate against the RNG not getting an Atma on a Fate whether it is the 1st one u are trying for or the 12th = no progress.

Just like if u open a Levi Ex chest or a Coil chest and u want BRD weapon but another weapon dropped, u didnt make any progress towards that BRD weapon.

I laughed and cried when I realized I had to do more FATES to upgrade my Atma. Just a warning to all those trying to get theirs...you'll be back.