Market Wards vs AH

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShinChuck

But people would be content with a new system from the ground up *or* a fully functioning AH even if they're still called "Wards".

---

If you read the whole thread, you'll find some people saying pretty much the content of your signature, and many responding with "no! Do away with it! We want AH". Paraphrased, of course, but very, very close.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gracious

I would like to see an Auction House in the game. I do not like the retainer system.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gracious

I want an Auction House.

---

I believe you already said that.

It's still true <3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Abriael

"no! Do away with it! We want AH". Paraphrased, of course, but very, very close.

---

Oh, so people "pretty much" said it? And you're using this as a citation?

You'll forgive me for dismissing your attempts to make the AH crowd look far more unreasonable than they actually are.

Gracious,

If they put in a fully-functioning AH (not this "almost as good" system they currently have in place), but still called it a Market Ward, would you still complain about not having an AH?

Big boy pants. Put them on and go read for yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AngryNixon

This thread is about ducks isn't it?

---

Hmmm I think you're right!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AngryNixon

This thread is about ducks isn't it?

---

Every thread is a thinly veiled duck thread. <_<

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Abriael

If you read the whole thread, you'll find some people saying pretty much the content of your signature, and many responding with "no! Do away with it! We want AH". Paraphrased, of course, but very, very close.

---

Ohhhhh! They're "pretty much" saying! Just not exactly. No specific quotes or anything. Just paraphrased. But really close. Goooooot it, convenient.

But let's be serious here: people would be happy with a full featured AH called "Market Wards". Might some people want the Wards removed entirely and rebuilt from the ground up as an AH? Sure. But it's highly unreasonable to say most people who say, "I would like an AH!" would not be happy with a fully featured AH still called "Market Wards." If people want a rose, and you give them a rose and call it stenchblossoms, most people won't be so unreasonable so as not to accept it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShinChuck

Every thread is a thinly veiled duck thread. <_<




Ohhhhh! They're "pretty much" saying! Just not exactly. No specific quotes or anything. Just paraphrased. But really close. Goooooot it, convenient.

But let's be serious here: people would be happy with a full featured AH called "Market Wards". Might some people want the Wards removed entirely and rebuilt from the ground up as an AH? Sure. But it's highly unreasonable to say most people who say, "I would like an AH!" would not be happy with a fully featured AH still called "Market Wards." If people want a rose, and you give them a rose and call it stenchblossoms, most people won't be so unreasonable so as not to accept it.

---

If you go back and read Abriael has been having long exchanges with people telling them how the "Market Ward" system could be just as effective as an "AH" with all the same features. But they still said it wasn't good enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShinChuck

But let's be serious here: people would be happy with a full featured AH called "Market Wards". Might some people want the Wards removed entirely and rebuilt from the ground up as an AH? Sure. But it's highly unreasonable to say most people who say, "I would like an AH!" would not be happy with a fully featured AH still called "Market Wards." If people want a rose, and you give them a rose and call it stenchblossoms, most people won't be so unreasonable so as not to accept it.

---

You obviously underestimate the internets, my friend.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trinta

Oh, so people "pretty much" said it? And you're using this as a citation?

You'll forgive me for dismissing your attempts to make the AH crowd look far more unreasonable than they actually are.

---

I forgive you. I have no need to make them look in any way. Most of them look plenty unreasonable without any help from me.

If you're blind, or biased, I can't take responsibility, but yes, I forgive you :D

I want to be able to buy what I want in one location without having to travel and find what I am looking for.

They seriously don't have an AH yet ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ostia

They seriously don't have an AH yet ?

---

They do. It's called market wards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xzen

If you go back and read Abriael has been having long exchanges with people telling them how the "Market Ward" system could be just as effective as an "AH" with all the same features. But they still said it wasn't good enough.

---

Right, followed this topic from the beginning, and don't see these alleged specific quotes.

And you know what? They really don't matter, because you're both ignoring the overriding point. Might there be people so unreasonable they're asking for an AH and nothing else? Sure. But most people, given an equivalent system, would stop complaining. Tell me you honestly believe the *majority* (majority, not random, niche nitwits) of people asking for an AH, given a *full featured equivalent system* still called Market Wards, would still complain and beg for the Ward's destruction, and and we can end this convo right now because it'll be obvious we're not being reasonable or serious.

That sounds harsher than I mean, but I mean no hard feelings either way, just trying to cut the fat here. :D

Market wards is only to get more $ from ppl that will pay money to have more retainers.
SE should remove market wards and add a great AH. I liked AH from Aion, very fast to search,buy and sell.

So even Gracious would be happy with "Market Wards" that are a functioning AH.

What I've seen is not people saying that it wouldn't be good enough, simply saying that it isn't good enough. Once all the functionality is in place, call Up With Skirts! for all we care.

I'm for continuing to develop the market wards and avoiding an Auction House in so far as is humanly possible.

I've said why elsewhere, really don't feel like saying it again, and plenty of others have voiced my views better anyway, so.. yep.

It's a system where you goto an area and look up what you want to buy and then travel to a ward to find the item you are looking for. It would much easier to have an auction house, not to mention an auction house is less time consuming.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Abriael

They do. It's called market wards.

---

How is a market wards an AH ?

While the wards are fine now, further down the road in the future I don't see them working. One of the biggest flaws is wards have a cap on how many retainers they can have, so when this game does recover (hopefully) and more players come in I can see this being an issue. So I say the wards need to be gotten rid of and something else put in their place.

I really don't know how you can say market wards and an auction house are the same thing. I'm very confused on that myself. To me they are 2 completely different things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShinChuck

Tell me you honestly believe the *majority* (majority, not random, niche nitwits) of people asking for an AH, given a *full featured equivalent system* still called Market Wards, would still complain and beg for the Ward's destruction, and and we can end this convo right now because it'll be obvious we're not being reasonable or serious.

---

If they still didn't notice that the market wards we have now are nothing else than a basic auction house system that's just waiting for further features (many of which already hinted at by the devs, like keyword search and price history) and stability fixes (even here already announced), then yeah, you get the picture. Or maybe you don't?

Why not just call an auction house an auction house? Just wondering.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShinChuck

Right, followed this topic from the beginning, and don't see these alleged specific quotes.

And you know what? They really don't matter, because you're both ignoring the overriding point. Might there be people so unreasonable they're asking for an AH and nothing else? Sure. But most people, given an equivalent system, would stop complaining. Tell me you honestly believe the *majority* (majority, not random, niche nitwits) of people asking for an AH, given a *full featured equivalent system* still called Market Wards, would still complain and beg for the Ward's destruction, and and we can end this convo right now because it'll be obvious we're not being reasonable or serious.

That sounds harsher than I mean, but I mean no hard feelings either way, just trying to cut the fat here. :D

---

I think what it boils down to is that we're on the same side but enjoy arguing too much to just admit it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gracious

Why not just call an auction house an auction house? Just wondering.

---

Because to most logical beings it shouldn't matter.

Well ,why give anything a name then I guess if we can call it anything we want?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Abriael

If they still didn't notice that the market wards we have now are nothing else than a basic auction house system that's just waiting for further features (many of which already hinted at by the devs, like keyword search and price history) and stability fixes (even here already announced), then yeah, you get the picture. Or maybe you don't?

---

Alas, Wards, while mimicking basic AH functions, have not yet fully realized the concept. People are saying "AH" because that encompasses what they know, the features they want, the *concept* they want realized. If these same concepts are realized, and it's called "Market Wards", it's just unreasonable to say "AH" people wouldn't be happy.

Actually, you have yet to actually deny they wouldn't ultimately be happy, so I assume then my point stands.

And can you tell me why you are opposed to just calling it an auction house?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xzen

I think what it boils down to is that we're on the same side but enjoy arguing too much to just admit it.

---

Oh no you didn't, that's totally wrong, you're being unreasonable!

...er, okay, maybe you're on to something. <_<

I love you too and I think you're super smart.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gracious

I love you too and I think you're super smart.

---

*sniffle* That's all I ever wanted someone to tell me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShinChuck

Alas, Wards, while mimicking basic AH functions, have not yet fully realized the concept. People are saying "AH" because that encompasses what they know, the features they want, the *concept* they want realized. If these same concepts are realized, and it's called "Market Wards", it's just unreasonable to say "AH" people wouldn't be happy.

---

Do you enjoy contradicting your own signature?

Quote:

---

Actually, you have yet to actually deny they wouldn't ultimately be happy, so I assume then my point stands.

---

You have yet to demonstrate that they would be. This thread, to me, demonstrated that there's a very vocal niche of people that would rather die than accept the validity of the market wards, whatever feature was added to them, no matter if that includes every feature of an auction house.
You're very free to draw your own conclusions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gracious

And can you tell me why you are opposed to just calling it an auction house?

---

Did I say that I am?
If they changed the market wards' name right now in "auction house", I wouldn't flinch for a second.
My ONLY point, through this thread, is that it's inefficent, damaging and ultimately utterly idiotic to completely scrap a system that's already in place to implement a system that would be redundant with it, when the first system has already evolved into the basic concept of the second system and can and propbably will evolve further.
This especially in the presence of a game that needs so much urgent work and resources in other aspects.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Abriael

Do you enjoy contradicting your own signature?



You have yet to demonstrate that they would be. This thread, to me, demonstrated that there's a very vocal niche of people that would rather die than accept the validity of the market wards, whatever feature was added to them, no matter if that includes every feature of an auction house.
You're very free to draw your own conclusions.

---

Oh, the Wards are a basic AH, just not fully realized. No contradiction there.

Would you like to deny my point? No? A "vocal niche" wouldn't accept the Wards as a full-featured AH, but the majority would, just as I've been saying on both accounts repeatedly? I'm glad you agree, we're on the same page then.

They can call it whatever the hell they want as long as it has the full functionality of what most modern MMOs call an "auction house". Right now it is just cumbersome to use.

I think your idea is fine Shin. I don't care what they call it. Auction House is just what I'm familiar with. I would just like to save time by getting what I need quickly instead of walking through seperate wards for each purchase.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShinChuck

Would you like to deny my point? No? A "vocal niche" wouldn't accept the Wards as a full-featured AH, but the majority would, just as I've been saying on both accounts repeatedly? I'm glad you agree, we're on the same page then.

---

Unfortunately the concept of "niche" does not include (as some erroneously believe) the concept of "Minority". If this thread is any indication (i hope not, but i'm starting to doubt), then we are in trouble.

Also, even if they were a minority outside of this thread, they would still be extremely annoying and damaging in their vocal bashing of whatever is not an "auction house".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gracious

I think your idea is fine Shin. I don't care what they call it. Auction House is just what I'm familiar with. I would just like to save time by getting what I need quickly instead of walking through seperate wards for each purchase.

---

Thank you, I feel that entirely. What I personally would like to see is the ability to buy from the search menu, ditch all the walking for purchases, and use Retainers as banking. But we'll see!

ok I now declare all of us that are now on the same page as being in favor of the "Duck" system!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xzen

Then the majority of this thread is the result of failed communication. I don't think anyone would would say that the Market Wards don't still need work. But asking to scrap them and start over is ridiculous. We could have a "market ward system" with all the features almost everyone wants in just a month or two. Or they could scrap it and we will have an AH with all the same features 6 months from now... >.>

---

What do you know about SE time-scales and how long programming takes?

You either
A: Are spouting complete rubbish, spewing it all over this nice shiny new forum, pulling numbers out of a hat and ramming them down our throat as facts that we should believe to be true as much as Coke is Dark Brown (its not its white btw)
or
B: Work inside SE or a similiarly sized Production House in a senior capacity with your finger on the pulse of how long it takes to write an AH or update market bored's - erm i mean wards.

Lets have a Poll, do you think he fits into category A or B everyone?

Vote Now to receive the grand prize ! A shiny new AH delivered to a game client near you !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Abriael

Unfortunately the concept of "niche" does not include (as some erroneously believe) the concept of "Minority". If this thread is any indication (i hope not, but i'm starting to doubt), then we are in trouble.

Also, even if they were a minority outside of this thread, they would still be extremely annoying and damaging in their vocal bashing of whatever is not an "auction house".

---

"Niche" refers to a specific demograph, a specialized market, so I think it fits here, at least well enough to make the point, and does not equate "majority" by definition.

But the second sentence is a sidebar, and we still agree with the premise. I'm really not sure what we're after at this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Abriael

Unfortunately the concept of "niche" does not include (as some erroneously believe) the concept of "Minority". If this thread is any indication (i hope not, but i'm starting to doubt), then we are in trouble.

Also, even if they were a minority outside of this thread, they would still be extremely annoying and damaging in their vocal bashing of whatever is not an "auction house".

---

I would accept the wards as a full featured AH if they could do the following - Not make me zone in and out of 20 different instanced areas to buy each item i want. Then it would be an AH. If you still have to zone around form place to place then its not a fully featured AH - its a Market Ward with a search function.

As for what you call it - i dont care, you could call it the Duck House for all i care, as long as its secretly called the auction house by all normal people.