'Raids', really?

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Originally Posted by Radaghast

She def got the money shot.

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I "like" what you did there

Because we like to, and we can. If it bothers you so much, move on. O: There's plenty of discussions you have yet to troll, make it so.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Dude, these people are afraid of a WORD. They sound almost like crazy grandpas.

The MMO terminology has chanced since FFXI's prime. It's just WORDS, people.

Asking them not to use the words 'raid' is like asking first person shooters not to use the words 'gun'.

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Ahahahaha holy crap.
To use a motif familiar to you


My point
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You.

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Originally Posted by PeaceWalker

Why do people have to complain about every detail?

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Because they want to feel like special snowflakes.

The term "raid" merely means "PvE-based content for groups larger than the standard party size". It's not limited to the WoW-style of raiding. It's just like the word "tank" references a character that can hold the attention of the enemy while taking less total damage than other party members. It does not just mean a Paladin with a shield, it can be many other kinds of characters with different playstyles.

They can call it Fluffy Bunny Adventures and it will still be the same thing it is: a "raid". Shall we start referring to "tanks" as "guardians" because you find the word "tank" to be too related to WoW, even though it is used in a multitude of other games? Take out "Hit Points" and start calling it "Life Force"? Is "Experience Points" too offensive?

What it *sounds* like is your point was just an awkward way of saying "Please don't make this content identical to World of Warcraft content." Now *that* is a perfectly viable sentiment, and one I can even agree with. But that has nothing to do with the name. If you're so bothered by the term "raid", call them "Toto-Rak" and "Darkhold".

I'm not sure what's worse: Those who are blindly devoted to WoW seeing no flaw in it, or those who blindly hate WoW seeing anything that may be perceived as a relation to it as immediately flawed. Hating something just because it is popular is just as bad as loving something just because it is popular.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Dude, these people are afraid of a WORD. They sound almost like crazy grandpas.

The MMO terminology has chanced since FFXI's prime. It's just WORDS, people.

Asking them not to use the words 'raid' is like asking first person shooters not to use the words 'gun'.

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For your information; Yoshi's first post on the job system was that he found it important to bring back Final Fantasy terminology, such as paladin, white mage, dragoon, monk, and so on.

Words may seem minoot to people these days, however words are a portion of what drives lore in a game, and Final Fantasy XIV is really struggling in that department. Words and terms are the basis from which everyone attaches stigmas, the term "raid" is too general and generic we need something to bring back Final Fantasy XIV's immersion into the intended developed universe.

From day one i have felt Final Fantasy XIV has been suffering from the western MMORPG disease.

Words bring with them feelings and memories and the word "Raid" brings to me the memory of trying 3+ times to play Wow and having to deal with its obnoxious subscribers, time wasted I would rather not be reminded of (Bad Feelings and Memories).

The words "White" and "Mage" together reminds me of the very first job I played and loved in FFXI (Good Memories).

The words "Brittany" and "Spears" put together make me feel sick like throwing up but also remind me of when she got her head blown off and still tried to sing on South Park (I laughed my ass off) so these feelings I have about these two words together are mixed (Mixed Feelings and Memories).

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Originally Posted by thenewzero

Because they want to feel like special snowflakes.

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....Ok? Comment is so far off center it's no longer on the map. But thanks for playing.

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Originally Posted by thenewzero

...or those who blindly hate WoW seeing anything that may be perceived as a relation to it as immediately flawed. Hating something just because it is popular is just as bad as loving something just because it is popular.

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Nice try at beating the beehive. I might put you in the blindly-devoted WoW-y pile based on your needless accusations along with Wolfie but seeing as I'm trying to avoid that cesspool, I'll give you a polite nod. Yes I might be biased, I'd go as far to say I'm personally largely biased, but as those have said before it is simply due to the fact that raid brings up a tireless thought of running a dungeon simply for drops, fanatics, a large amount of frustration and feeling of getting no-where and general "ugh"ness. While on the other hand I found XI's dungeons to be something to look forward to and a great achievement to unlock and never had been associated with one large blanket term. While Dynamis can be seen as an "Ugh, hell, don't talk about that piece of crap" at least it wasn't referred to by players along with everything else like Limbus or sky as something like 'raid' where afterwards all we're left with is a sour taste in our mouths.

Honestly, the one thing about WoW that bugged the absolute piss out of me was hearing every one of my friends who played use the term over and over referring to pretty much every dungeon ever and their evening activity. My God that's obnoxious, and it does bring up negative feelings. Clearly I'm not alone in this or you wouldn't be working so hard to piss us off. :D

So, I'll stop you two and your useless pandering and circlejerking, but you're absolutely wrong in thinking myself or anyone else is against blanket/MMO terms in general and are over-generalizing this thread to attempt to make us look sillier than we are. So unless you have anything more along the lines of constructive to add to the discussion take your trolling elsewhere. :3

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Dude, these people are afraid of a WORD. They sound almost like crazy grandpas.

The MMO terminology has chanced since FFXI's prime. It's just WORDS, people.

Asking them not to use the words 'raid' is like asking first person shooters not to use the words 'gun'.

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Usually I would agree with opinions like this. But I think you have to realise that FFXIV is an artistic game that prides itself on literary flare and rich lore. The modern MMO terminologies would encroach upon FFXIV's artistic view and make it generic, I feel.

give me a thumbs up if you think dungeon raid should be called chamber plunder as not to seem to similar to other titles. joking, i dont care what they call it as long as they start adding content.

oh, and as for lure, i think they are using the world raid so when they stamp it on the box "raids" everyone will be like wow it has raids. Although many traditional FF fans may dislike this they may be trying to broaden their player base. Im not saying i ant the game full of wow fan-boys or anything but this is how i am interpenetrating there decision to use the word.

Just out of curiousity, what is a better term for "Raid?" I like that XI didnt really have generic terms for content, but thats because most content wasn't alike. I also played LOTRO and from what I can remember we called instanced content either an instance, or most of the time by the areas name.

Are we going to say "we wiped to So-and-so" everytime we fail a "raid" too?

It just seems like FFXIV will lose some of its charm if everything because systematic and calculated like that.

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

Just out of curiousity, what is a better term for "Raid?" I like that XI didnt really have generic terms for content, but thats because most content wasn't alike. I also played LOTRO and from what I can remember we called instanced content either an instance, or most of the time by the areas name.

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Speaking of which...

[Elezen Accent]

"You have entered an instance"

:gasp: an INSTANCE!?? surely this is the epitome of mediocrity. "Instance" is a pock mark that sticks out like a dead marmot! Doesn't SE know it must be ARTISTIC!??

I will not play such filth that would subject me to an "instance"! Let me out I say! I am an ADVENTURER! I will be restrained only by "Adventure"!

"You have entered an Adventure."

Much better! Surely this plays to the artistic quality of this fine articulate game! Now I can return to my behests, and Local leves, Notorious Monters a--:GASP!:

What in the Seven Hells is This!! "Quests"??! Its like my ears have been violated with such words!

"What are you doing right now?

"DDh"

"ahhh okay, good luck!"

nuff said.

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Originally Posted by Oscillate_Wildly

Is this because the game itself lacks a solid cohesive story?

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=(

i like the story...

What if they said 'panty raid'?

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Originally Posted by Oscillate_Wildly

....Ok? Comment is so far off center it's no longer on the map. But thanks for playing.



Nice try at beating the beehive. I might put you in the blindly-devoted WoW-y pile based on your needless accusations along with Wolfie but seeing as I'm trying to avoid that cesspool, I'll give you a polite nod. Yes I might be biased, I'd go as far to say I'm personally largely biased, but as those have said before it is simply due to the fact that raid brings up a tireless thought of running a dungeon simply for drops, fanatics, a large amount of frustration and feeling of getting no-where and general "ugh"ness. While on the other hand I found XI's dungeons to be something to look forward to and a great achievement to unlock and never had been associated with one large blanket term. While Dynamis can be seen as an "Ugh, hell, don't talk about that piece of crap" at least it wasn't referred to by players along with everything else like Limbus or sky as something like 'raid' where afterwards all we're left with is a sour taste in our mouths.

Honestly, the one thing about WoW that bugged the absolute piss out of me was hearing every one of my friends who played use the term over and over referring to pretty much every dungeon ever and their evening activity. My God that's obnoxious, and it does bring up negative feelings. Clearly I'm not alone in this or you wouldn't be working so hard to piss us off. :D

So, I'll stop you two and your useless pandering and circlejerking, but you're absolutely wrong in thinking myself or anyone else is against blanket/MMO terms in general and are over-generalizing this thread to attempt to make us look sillier than we are. So unless you have anything more along the lines of constructive to add to the discussion take your trolling elsewhere. :3

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Honestly, though, this part is so far off it's not even funny. The term "raid" wasn't used that often within the community. It was mostly a term used toward those outside the community, who would be lost otherwise.

"Let's start a group for Kara."
"Wonder if I can solo Ony with this setup. . ."
"Don't you still need a weapon from ZA?"
"Did you see the video of that mage solo'ing those Naxx bosses?"
"I just got attuned to MC."
"I've never done AQ before."

This is how WoW players actually talk to each other. Now, if I had to explain any of those sentences to someone who didn't play WoW, yes, I'd be using the **** out of the word "raid." The only reason you heard the word so, so much was because you didn't have the context necessary to use the more specific words.

On a related note, having never played XI, I still always understood Dynamis, Sky, et al to be raids, even though I can't recall anyone ever calling them such. A rose by any other name. . .

I blame Yoshi-P for mentioning the word raid...

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Originally Posted by Morphemes

=(

i like the story...

What if they said 'panty raid'?

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The story is excellent and getting better. D: But it's so spread out.

Why is there no CM response for this? I'm not looking to have my game turned into its garbage bland competitor. Diversified content named with care please.

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

Why is there no CM response for this? I'm not looking to have my game turned into its garbage bland competitor. Diversified content named with care please.

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Just like WoW had?

lets change the word RAID to Plunderage!

... The ignorance just blows me away in this thread. Do some of you even read? You can call these dungeons whatever you want. If you don't like the respective name that goes with it then use your own abbreviation. Whether it's a raid or not why are a lot of you getting butt-hurt over terminology. If you question if you're going to quit over this then good riddance. What you should be focusing your frustrations on is all the other important fUnctions in this game.

Personally I feel bad for the Comreps that have to read this garbage and quite frankly I doubt it will even get mentioned to the Dev Team.

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Originally Posted by DGMart

... The ignorance just blows me away in this thread. Do some of you even read? You can call these dungeons whatever want. If you don't like the respective name that goes with it then use your own abbreviation. Whether it's a raid or not why are a lot of you getting butt-hurt over terminology. If you question if you're going to quit over this then good riddance. What you should be focusing your frustrations on is all the other important fUnctions in this game.

Personally I feel bad for the Comreps that have to read this garbage and quite frankly I doubt it will even get mentioned to the Dev Team.

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Some of the posts made on this forum by the anti-WOW brigade are asinine to the extreme. This topic especially feels almost like it could give me a brain tumor.

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Originally Posted by DGMart

... The ignorance just blows me away in this thread. Do some of you even read? You can call these dungeons whatever want. If you don't like the respective name that goes with it then use your own abbreviation. Whether it's a raid or not why are a lot of you getting butt-hurt over terminology. If you question if you're going to quit over this then good riddance. What you should be focusing your frustrations on is all the other important fUnctions in this game.

Personally I feel bad for the Comreps that have to read this garbage and quite frankly I doubt it will even get mentioned to the Dev Team.

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Ignorance is a state of being uninformed, are you sure you chose the right word because i do not see how being miss informed applies to wanting a name changed...? We were informed of the name and now we are asking for it to be more closely tied to lore, sounds like a pretty informed request to me... and i do not understand your proclamation that we need to read, read what?

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Some of the posts made on this forum by the anti-WOW brigade are asinine to the extreme. This topic especially feels almost like it could give me a brain tumor.

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And there are a plethora of WoW brigade posts for you to whimsically post in, rather then flaming a topic that dose not interest you...

Yeah, actually, it does interest me because you guys are poopooing content and raising hell because the devs dared use a term associated with a particularly popular western MMO. I don't play WOW, I have no intention of playing WOW, and I don't even like WOW anymore; but I don't fly into a fit of rage when I hear a popular MMO term applied to this game, especially when its predecessor didn't even have a term to describe that kind of concept or activity.

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Originally Posted by Bled

Ignorance is a state of being uninformed, are you sure you chose the right word because i do not see how being miss informed applies to wanting a name changed...? We were informed of the name and now we are asking for it to be more closely tied to lore, sounds like a pretty informed request to me... and i do not understand your proclamation that we need to read, read what?

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The misinformation lies in the assertion that 'raid' is a WoW term. It's not. Claims to the contrary are claims made out of ignorance. Actually reading the large number of posts saying exactly this and then thinking about what you just read would probably help. . .

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Yeah, actually, it does interest me because you guys are poopooing content and raising hell because the devs dared use a term associated with a particularly popular western MMO. I don't play WOW, I have no intention of playing WOW, and I don't even like WOW anymore; but I don't fly into a fit of rage when I hear a popular MMO term applied to this game, especially when its predecessor didn't even have a term to describe that kind of concept or activity.

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Some are upset more then others on the name change, but rather you choose to selectively choose the few people in this thread who raged and refer to the thread as a whole raging about the term "raid". I could truly care less what ultimately the name ends up being, however i would prefer a more lore filled term and definition for our instances. The term "raid" is not owned by WoW and if it is truly a raid then great call it that what ever, I'm just shocked at the people who play Final Fantasy's and do not care about the lore attached to the content.

Part of the WoW disease if you ask me ZERG content for LOOTS, and who gives a flying fu** about the immersion, plot, world and community.

But. . . calling it a raid doesn't in any way limit your choices as far as filling out the lore. You can have oodles and oodles of lore and still call it a raid. There's literally nothing saying that the two states are mutually exclusive.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

The misinformation lies in the assertion that 'raid' is a WoW term. It's not. Claims to the contrary are claims made out of ignorance. Actually reading the large number of posts saying exactly this and then thinking about what you just read would probably help. . .

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well raid is a WoW term but is not synonyms to WoW alone... you need to think before you post i never claimed that WoW owned the word itself.

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Originally Posted by Bled

well raid is a WoW term but is not synonyms to WoW alone... you need to think before you post i never claimed that WoW owned the word.

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But you did say that you thought "ignorance" was a poor choice of wording. To back this up, you said that people were making informed choices based on the word being attached to the content. The fact that others (not you, personally) are asserting that 'raid' is a WoW term means that they're making this claim out of ignorance.

I was just pointing this out to you, not claiming that you ever asserted that raid is a WoW term. Therefore, your response rather misses the mark, no?

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

But. . . calling it a raid doesn't in any way limit your choices as far as filling out the lore. You can have oodles and oodles of lore and still call it a raid. There's literally nothing saying that the two states are mutually exclusive.

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If by definition all we are doing is raiding them fine if the definition fits use it, however i feel that raid is a common stigma within the community for ZERG and loot.

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Originally Posted by Bled

Some are upset more then others on the name change, but rather you choose to selectively choose the few people in this thread who raged and refer to the thread as a whole raging about the term "raid". I could truly care less what ultimately the name ends up being, however i would prefer a more lore filled term and definition for our instances. The term "raid" is not owned by WoW and if it is truly a raid then great call it that what ever, I'm just shocked at the people who play Final Fantasy's and do not care about the lore attached to the content.

Part of the WoW disease if you ask me ZERG content for LOOTS, and who gives a flying fu** about the immersion, plot, world and community.

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No, I care deeply about the lore and I've posted about my disappointment in how lackluster the quests, leves, and other content is in this game. But that has nothing to do with a gaming term you use to describe a particular action or concept. FF does NOT need to come up with new names for every single gaming concept in order to have good lore. I mean, they used the word "quests" for quests. Why isn't that such a huge travesty?

Yes, I agree with your thoughts on the WOW disease. How is that in any way related to the terminology used?

Its simple guys, you might not mind the word and the word Raid may not even remind you of Wow however it does remind (Clearly) plenty of others of WOw. From here some people have good thoughts and bad thoughts of wow... Its simple, Wow is so big that it might as well own the word because plenty of people who don't know about the other games you are referring to but do know wow are going to immediately think of Wow and that could be a good or a bad thing.. its that simple.. people would simply prefer it have a more creative name, whats wrong with that (at least thats the way I feel about it)?

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

But you did say that you thought "ignorance" was a poor choice of wording. To back this up, you said that people were making informed choices based on the word being attached to the content. The fact that others (not you, personally) are asserting that 'raid' is a WoW term means that they're making this claim out of ignorance.

I was just pointing this out to you, not claiming that you ever asserted that raid is a WoW term. Therefore, your response rather misses the mark, no?

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The word has a stigma attached, it is not attached to the game itself i hope that clears this up for you.

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Originally Posted by Bled

The word has a stigma attached, it is not attached to the game itself i hope that clears this up for you.

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And I'm here arguing, that the stigma is baseless and potentially harmful to the game's evolution, in hopes that people stop having knee-jerk reactions and take a step back and think critically and objectively for a moment.

Put it this way... Imagine youve had a girlfriend (ha, imagine) and her name was Sarah and she cheated on you with 50 other dudes, stole all your shit, and then dumped you.... THere have been millions of sarahs before her who are nice and you may simple have never even met.. but from now on any time you hear the name sarah your going to be haunted.. now imagine if your forced to play a game where the main characters name is sarah... WOuldnt that be miserable? Having to be reminded of such horrid events.

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Originally Posted by Morticous

Put it this way... Imagine youve had a girlfriend (ha, imagine) and her name was Sarah and she cheated on you with 50 other dudes, stole all your shit, and then dumped you.... THere have been millions of sarahs before her who are nice and you may simple have never even met.. but from now on any time you hear the name sarah your going to be haunted.. now imagine if your forced to play a game where the main characters name is sarah... WOuldnt that be miserable? Having to be reminded of such horrid events.

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No, because I'm smart enough to know that any future Sarahs i encounter and/or date are different people.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

No, because I'm smart enough to know that any future Sarahs i encounter and/or date are different people.

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The point is it still reminds you of the sarah you've had a bad relationship with no? Your ok with being constantly remind of bad experiences?

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

And I'm here arguing, that the stigma is baseless and potentially harmful to the game's evolution, in hopes that people stop having knee-jerk reactions and take a step back and think critically and objectively for a moment.

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what you call baseless closely relates to labeling theory in my eyes. Words have stigmas attached to them that cause them to develop preconceived notions. It is not difficult to come up with a easy creative and definitively correct term for these instances, if SE chooses to name it "raid" w/e i just want people to stop flaming with the statement "What you want it pointless and I think the game needs ______ because that's more important".

whats worse requesting a name change that is as you call it "pointless"
-or-
Flaming said topic that you think is "pointless"....