1 click Turn 2 strat broken?

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Originally Posted by Peptaru

inb4 4 healer party!

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{Looking for party} {Turn 2} {Enrage} 1{Paladin} 4{Scholar} 3{White Mage}

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Originally Posted by Sunarie

It disables everything else. So perhaps the best wording would have been to disable all but one, or a majority of, the mechanics. To me, that's actually no different then having a healer stand in a tree to disable the add part of AK first boss.. both are cheap. They are both things I've done.. but they are still cheap.

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I've thought about it for a while, and I'm quite certain that the disabling of other mechanics is deliberate. The only way to survive at that point is to stack up and AoE heal (and even then, without the correct comp and gear, you're probably going to wipe), and if there were other mechanics (well, other than Rot, I suppose), that wouldn't be possible.

Why wouldn't it? You would just have to stack and move as a team.

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Originally Posted by NeonC

Why wouldn't it? You would just have to stack and move as a team.

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Because the stacking debuff put on the tank is a frontal cone (and so are several of his attacks, if I am not mistaken). Which would mean the entire group would get it on them. Add to that, any time you are moving, you can't really heal. Missing a Medica murders people, at least in my experience.

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Originally Posted by DenzelTaru

So.. Time was taken to learn the coils fights.. turn 2 being the most interesting one to get 6 people to work together on (lol) and then one person posts a video of 1 clicking ADS and now EVERYONE wants to do it.

My question is this, and I know people probably won't like it.. is that "working as intended" too? cos it makes turn 2 as lol-worthy as t3

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Why do you care what other people do? How is this diminishing your gameplay?

What is with all this 3-4 healer stuff? We tried it last time, partly for shits and giggles, partly because we had to pug one and didn't feel like explaining their role for rot, but we just did it with our normal party comp.

Now that we did it once, we probably won't again, unless we have a few people wanting bathroom/smoke/drink breaks at the right time. There isn't really much reason to sit there with your thumb up your ass for several minutes.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

I've thought about it for a while, and I'm quite certain that the disabling of other mechanics is deliberate. The only way to survive at that point is to stack up and AoE heal (and even then, without the correct comp and gear, you're probably going to wipe), and if there were other mechanics (well, other than Rot, I suppose), that wouldn't be possible.

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I think it is.. well it kind of has to be deliberate. I think it more has to do with how ADS, and other bosses do abilities though. They don't seem capable of casting two things at once (I've seen a boss interrupt one of it's skills with another skill even). So in order for it to cast the pulse damage (which I think was meant to eventually wipe the party), it can't cast anything else or the pulses wouldn't be anywhere near frequent enough to wipe the party.

What I don't think is deliberate, is people waiting and then just healing through the damage. I highly suspect SE never imagined people would do this. Which is why I wouldn't at all be surprised if it got changed. Similar to them saying Dark Devices was working as intended, and then turning around and nerfing it. Or them saying Warriors were fine, and people just hadn't unlocked the potential, but then turning around and buffing them, saying they didn't imagine people would just take two Paladins to Coil instead.

Again, I'm not calling people bads or anything. They can clear content however they want, and I've ever said my FC has used this strategy. I still think it's cheap though. Yes, it requires the healers to be on the ball, but that's it. It doesn't at all require teamwork. The only comp requirement, or gear requirement, is a white mage, and another healer. Beyond that you can actually get people well under what would normally be needed to clear Coil for most groups. It's reducing an otherwise very team oriented fight to "stand in this single spot and dps while healers use only aoe 1-2 heals to get through the entire fight".

If SE is going to Nerf this fight, Then SE needs to Nerf T3. Force all of us to fight every single mob, If we don't get to the bottom within 10 mins flood the chamber and kill everyone. Seems fair to me.

a fight where you can literally close your eyes and still succeed takes a lot of skill ok...

It funny how people are upset about this, if you don't want to do that method then don't do it. Do it however you want to play the game SE does not need to fix every little thing cause it not the way you play or the "proper" way

This strategy is lol

Has any of you wanting this "fixed" actually done this strategy? It takes 2 WHMs and a SCH to do this method because the AoEs are constantly going. One missed heal or no mage's ballad and the party wipes quickly. It is harder than the normal way.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

This strategy is lol

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This is lol :(

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Originally Posted by Fantasy9

Has any of you wanting this "fixed" actually done this strategy? It takes 2 WHMs and a SCH to do this method because the AoEs are constantly going. One missed heal or no mage's ballad and the party wipes quickly. It is harder than the normal way.

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I disagree entirely. I've seen parties do it with 2 WHMs or 1 WHM and 1 SCH. I did it with 1 WHM and 1 SCH, and 1 WHM and 2 SCH the two times I've done it. While it may be harder for the healers (though I hardly believe it is), it is leaps and bounds easier for the rest of the party. As a tank, I previously had to watch stacks to know when to pull correctly, watch for high voltage and silence at the appropriate time, dodge fire star, dodge repelling cannons, dodge piercing strike, and make sure I was positioning the boss in an appropriate way as I'm trading aggro so the melee doesn't get hit. With the enrage, I run in, stand in one spot, and sleep through my rotation.

I also find it very difficult to believe that it's harder for healers to time Medica 2 and Medica than for them to have to worry about healing the tank, the party, passing rot, dodging piercing lasers, and dodging Firestar (or ballast I suppose if you go the other way), all while aoe healing the pulsing damage of vacuum.. whatever that skill is called, and chain lightning. (That's going by what my static has up)

I don't care if SE fixes it, though I honestly think they will. I don't really care that people do it in their groups, other than it being a minor annoyance when we pick up a pug and that's all they want to do. I'm also not going to pretend it's some god-send of a strat that is the best ever, and probably am not ever going to view it as anything other than using cheap tactics to down a boss. Everyone uses cheap tactics at some point, whether it be locking enemies out using a boss wall, or standing where you know mobs won't be able to attack you back. Sometimes there are good reasons to use the cheap shots, that doesn't change what it is though.

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Originally Posted by GilbertLapine

Why do you care what other people do? How is this diminishing your gameplay?

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It does diminish my gameplay. When a dps is unable to make it to our static any given week we must instead use a pug. Due to the proliferation of this strategy finding pugs skilled enough to actually pass rot and do the mechanics is becoming increasingly difficult. That directly effects my gameplay and makes me very concerned about what other people do.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

It does diminish my gameplay. When a dps is unable to make it to our static any given week we must instead use a pug. Due to the proliferation of this strategy finding pugs skilled enough to actually pass rot and do the mechanics is becoming increasingly difficult. That directly effects my gameplay and makes me very concerned about what other people do.

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Then when you HAVE TO use a pug, just do the enrage way. It's just about passing it anyway

If they fix this then they should also fix turn 3. Not fair that people get to run right by the mobs.

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

If they fix this then they should also fix turn 3. Not fair that people get to run right by the mobs.

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They did try and fix turn 3 a bit. Mobs keep on following you and seem to have a bit better pathing than previously.. and some mobs that previously didn't aggro at all (we use to call them derpy birds) now do. I also won't be surprised if (in the future) they make it so you have to defeat the golems prior to interacting with the terminal that activates the jump platform.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Then when you HAVE TO use a pug, just do the enrage way. It's just about passing it anyway

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We refuse to do it that way because it is lazy. So as I said it does indeed diminish my gameplay and it leaves me very concerned about what other people do. Everyone in this thread argues this is a viable strategy and people should let others do what they want. Here I stand up and say we don't want to do it that way and it's hindering my ability to use pugs. Now you pop up and argue I should just cave and do it this way instead of the way we want? The unbelievable amount of hypocrisy in this thread is staggering.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

SNIP

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The problem is you're expecting PUG DPS to be good. Most good DPS are already claimed by statics, and most PUGing it aren't up to par. If you can't take time to teach people, or wait long enough to find a good PUG, the problem is more with you, honestly.

And for all you know, all you're getting are people new to T2, geared or not. A LOT of people say they have experience when they don't since many groups refuse to take new people.

At the very least, you need to explain your strat to every PUG you grab since not everyone does every fight the same way (don't know how many different ways I've attempted to clear T4 with, for example)

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Originally Posted by Sunarie

They did try and fix turn 3 a bit. Mobs keep on following you and seem to have a bit better pathing than previously.. and some mobs that previously didn't aggro at all (we use to call them derpy birds) now do. I also won't be surprised if (in the future) they make it so you have to defeat the golems prior to interacting with the terminal that activates the jump platform.

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They should do just that. You can't fix one and not the other. People shouldn't be able to run right through.. If this strat is cheap then so is speeding through like sonic in my opinion. We should be forced to fight the trash.

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

They should do just that. You can't fix one and not the other. People shouldn't be able to run right through.. If this strat is cheap then so is speeding through like sonic in my opinion. We should be forced to fight the trash.

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And I would agree and say the same of WP speed runs and such.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

We refuse to do it that way because it is lazy.

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So you're restraining your own gameplay by your own choices. If they can't do it, teach them, but it will take time. They know how to do an other way and YOU ask them to do otherwise. You're the one wrong if you can't understand that they won't suddenly be good in the old school way (no disrespect intended.)

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

So as I said it does indeed diminish my gameplay and it leaves me very concerned about what other people do. Everyone in this thread argues this is a viable strategy and people should let others do what they want.Here I stand up and say we don't want to do it that way and it's hindering my ability to use pugs. Now you pop up and argue I should just cave and do it this way instead of the way we want? The unbelievable amount of hypocrisy in this thread is staggering.

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You're the one being hypocrit when you say it's hindering your PUG possibilities. Without that method, you wouldn't have any more possibilities to PUG because these "non skilled" people wouldn't be able to clear it anyway. The method hasn't changed anything, except that people now get more chance to gear in il90 and thus get some more damage/health to achieve the old school way.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

The method hasn't changed anything, except that people now get more chance to gear in il90 and thus get some more damage/health to achieve the old school way.

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The thing is, gear alone isn't enough to teach people the mechanics. You can have a full ilvl 90 party wipe to HM Titan if they don't know how to dodge plumes. Or, alternatively, you can have a skilled group clear something like Extreme Garuda at the low duty-finder ilvl of the mid-60's if they're on their game. The groups that rely on the enrage mechanic to clear T2 are, frankly, being cheated out of the ability to learn the proper mechanics, and are put into an unfavorable position when it comes to the coil or extreme mode primals. And the pug groups that pick them up and wipe repeatedly are the casualties of this pattern.

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Originally Posted by Yoten

The thing is, gear alone isn't enough to teach people the mechanics. You can have a full ilvl 90 party wipe to HM Titan if they don't know how to dodge plumes. Or, alternatively, you can have a skilled group clear something like Extreme Garuda at the low duty-finder ilvl of the mid-60's if they're on their game. The groups that rely on the enrage mechanic to clear T2 are, frankly, being cheated out of the ability to learn the proper mechanics, and are put into an unfavorable position when it comes to the coil or extreme mode primals. And the pug groups that pick them up and wipe repeatedly are the casualties of this pattern.

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having more il-90 gear allows more room for mistakes lag-related or just reflex-related. It allows those who actually want to learn to get a more comfortable background to learn the fight than just a "error => wipe" like it is against Titan HM (I dunno yet how unforgiving it is for the EX primals). If people are unwilling to learn, then you can pick others. There are plenty who are seeking statics.

I can't believe that people are really saying that this is just "creative use" of mechanics while maintaining that they're not making an already easy fight laughable. Do it however you want, but at least admit you're doing it because you can't coordinate with other players and that you cannot step out of a red line. Good luck in the new Extremes.

Edit: I feel bad for players with legitimate ISP issues, but there's really no excuse for those without said issues.

Actually i was looking around the party finder these few days, even japanese are looking for parties to do this run.