PVP, and how Gimped MELEE is.

anyone who says use resistance materia and lists things that counteract sleep need to die in a fire at base level with base gear blm have a redic advantage period 8 secobds is an acceptable cc time sleep should only work on 1 target at a time per person casting sleep and everyones sleep needs to trigger the same dr and it needs to be a 40 sec dr cycle period. doent need to affect pve at all if then statemnts in coding if taget is a player then sleep lasts 8 seconds period its not impossible and to blow a 100+ second cc break to get slept again by a differnt target for 15 seconds is fair right this is classic mage mentality. its cool im a mage i should always win and mmo companys coddle them and condone this mentality

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Originally Posted by seraph1m

Wall of Text

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Sorry, no clue what you are trying to say at all. This is just a wall of text that is hurting my eyes.

He's qqing about effect durations, when we have a crowd control removal skill and diminishing returns. No thanks, it's fine the way it is for the most part.

The whole reason the resistance materia came back (and only for PvP) is to help people deal with status effects. It's also what people should be putting on their slotted PvP gear.

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Originally Posted by seraph1m

anyone who says use resistance materia and lists things that counteract sleep need to die in a fire at base level with base gear blm have a redic advantage period 8 secobds is an acceptable cc time sleep should only work on 1 target at a time per person casting sleep and everyones sleep needs to trigger the same dr and it needs to be a 40 sec dr cycle period. doent need to affect pve at all if then statemnts in coding if taget is a player then sleep lasts 8 seconds period its not impossible and to blow a 100+ second cc break to get slept again by a differnt target for 15 seconds is fair right this is classic mage mentality. its cool im a mage i should always win and mmo companys coddle them and condone this mentality

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I agree man...I agree...

REALLY? Tell me sir, what are the crowd control removal skills? oh purify? NICE! use it once and have the same effect reapplied onto you afterwards. Oh if that isn't enough? How about materia! Oh shit, can't do that because of their high cost in wolf points..hmmmmm ok ok ok, how about...yeah think about what your saying, you make no sense.

Your telling me that sleep, should be this powerful at such low levels of pvp, get over yourself man.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

He's qqing about effect durations, when we have a crowd control removal skill and diminishing returns. No thanks, it's fine the way it is for the most part.

The whole reason the resistance materia came back (and only for PvP) is to help people deal with status effects. It's also what people should be putting on their slotted PvP gear.

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use it once and have the same effect reapplied onto you afterwards.

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" and diminishing returns..."

What do you do when somebody is abusing crowd control? Attack them and keep them from using it. Learn to play. THIS is why put in 100% spell interruption on damage.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

" and diminishing returns..."

What do you do when somebody is abusing crowd control? Attack them and keep them from using it. Learn to play. THIS is why put in 100% spell interruption on damage.

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Ever heard of swift cast? Because regardless of this "diminished return" you speak of, they can just swift cast you back to sleep. Please play more than just 10 games of pvp before you speak, EVEN if you do play more, stop being biased. You know for a fact sleep is OP, yet you argue against it because you probably play as either a summ\scho who does not lack range abilities.

Oh and wait let me add to this before you reply, say we had 2 melee dps, three counting the tank, all ganking the blm, even after we ALL used purify. Wouldn't he just be able to use swiftcast and sleep, and sleep the entire group again?

Like come on man think before you post.

Everyone can get PvP abilities which grant immunity to sleep.
Everyone can get PvP ranged attack abilities which inflict heavy
Everyone can use DoT, Stuns, and Silences to prevent caster from escaping / healing / casting
I have had no issue absolutely destroying pretty much every caster I engage with my DRG.

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Originally Posted by OdinTheTainted

Ever heard of swift cast? Because regardless of this "diminished return" you speak of, they can just swift cast you back to sleep.

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It is 2 min CD. Swiftcast is not always the reason why BLM can put you into sleep. Someone stoneskin him and your physical attack cant interrupt him. A good PLD will do this a lot because he is unlikely being attacked at all. Did you pay attention to the surrounding and not tunnel vision?

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Originally Posted by Sinth

Everyone can get PvP abilities which grant immunity to sleep.
Everyone can get PvP ranged attack abilities which inflict heavy
Everyone can use DoT, Stuns, and Silences to prevent caster from escaping / healing / casting
I have had no issue absolutely destroying pretty much every caster I engage with my DRG.

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Now let's see, do you destroy them and lose still, or destroy them and win? Because this whole "wait until you get higher levels in pvp, because the skills are there for you to use" is nonsense. Post a screenshot of your win\match and we can confirm if you are bsing or not.

ALSO you are all foolishly thinking every caster uses swift cast in the beginning of the match. Some do, and some save it after the first initial sleep.

CANT RESPOND POST LOCK

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Ever heard of swift cast?

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Ever heard of recast timers? There are various other pvp actions that help with things like this. SMN has an ability to nerf a target's range making it harder for them to cast. Multiple classes have stuns, silences and interrupts that can hold down threatening targets.

It's all part of a complex web of strategy. While I realize disabling effects are some of the more unfun effects in any game, there is skill involved in dealing with them and mitigating their impact.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

What do you do when somebody is abusing crowd control? Attack them and keep them from using it. Learn to play. THIS is why put in 100% spell interruption on damage.

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This about sums it up. @Everybody who can't figure out what to do about sleep: remember, there are 3 more players on your team that either have their own sleep, or can wake other party members, or can suppress the enemy spellcaster/healer.

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Originally Posted by OdinTheTainted

Now let's see, do you destroy them and lose still, or destroy them and win? Because this whole "wait until you get higher levels in pvp, because the skills are there for you to use" is nonsense. Post a screenshot of your win\match and we can confirm if you are bsing or not.

ALSO you are all foolishly thinking every caster uses swift cast in the beginning of the match. Some do, and some save it after the first initial sleep.

CANT RESPOND POST LOCK

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I have screenshots of a few of my matches on my home computer. I will post them showing 4 kills in multiple matches with every match over 10k damage. Also, its not like you have to grind to get these pvp skills, I had fetter ward after my 3rd match...

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Originally Posted by Sinth

I have screenshots of a few of my matches on my home computer. I will post them showing 4 kills in multiple matches with every match over 10k damage. Also, its not like you have to grind to get these pvp skills, I had fetter ward after my 3rd match...

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I checked his character profile, he only has rank 1 achivement for PvP, in which, one action point right now. I dont think he is at same level as us at this point.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

I checked his character profile, he only has rank 1 achivement for PvP, in which, one action point right now. I dont think he is at same level as us at this point.

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I'm halfway till 8...What are you rank 30?

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Originally Posted by Sinth

I have screenshots of a few of my matches on my home computer. I will post them showing 4 kills in multiple matches with every match over 10k damage. Also, its not like you have to grind to get these pvp skills, I had fetter ward after my 3rd match...

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That isn't what I asked to see, what is your "Win\Match\Loss" specifically. Unless you have won alittle over 1.4-2.0+ you are not that special. Because I have instances where I had 3-4 kills and didn't win as a warrior because of revivals and my team not being able to keep up

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Originally Posted by OdinTheTainted

I'm halfway till 8...What are you rank 30?

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Nope, rank 5, I have WoW raid to do yesterday (althought I kinda dont want to), but I dont think Sleep is an issue at all.

OdinTheTainted

Your logic pains me and I really hope you understand how ridiculous you sound. You have several DPS players including "mwa" in your thread telling you what to do and how to counter cc and you REFUSE to listen because you're not grasping that you're play style is lacking.

PvP is not as linear as you think it is. People don't know how to use their GUT instincts and use skills and abilities and tactics base on the current situation and this is why you're here crying and rejecting everything everyone telling you because in your head YOU ARE RIGHT and everyone else is wrong. The flaw here is your logic mate you need to see that if your going to change and compete in PvP if not then your screwed.

easiest way to look at it u can stack mage classes and win a good amount if u stack melee u lose and guess which classes dont have access to direct heals to remove sleep ohh thats right melee and gues which ones do ohh thats right mages. kill yourself

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

Nope, rank 5, I have WoW raid to do yesterday (althought I kinda dont want to), but I dont think Sleep is an issue at all.

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You know this entire thread isn't about sleep in general right?

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Originally Posted by PhageLock

OdinTheTainted

Your logic pains me and I really hope you understand how ridiculous you sound. You have several DPS players including "mwa" in your thread telling you what to do and how to counter cc and you REFUSE to listen because you're not grasping that you're play style is lacking.

PvP is not as linear as you think it is. People don't know how to use their GUT instincts and use skills and abilities and tactics base on the current situation and this is why you're here crying and rejecting everything everyone telling you because in your head YOU ARE RIGHT and everyone else is wrong. The flaw here is your logic mate you need to see that if your going to change and compete in PvP if not then your screwed.

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Actually I have had like 7 melee dps, nearly all dragoons tell me "sleep is not an issue" the rest were all ranged dps. So please tell me how I am dense?

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Originally Posted by OdinTheTainted

You know this entire thread isn't about sleep in general right?

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Perfectly aware of that. Meele is not in disadvantage at all. I cant even kite a MNK at all as BRD and I am not complaining, because my teammate is good enough to put stoneskin on me and let me tank the MNK. PvP is not linear, stop whinning. There are good players here providing you counter strategy, but all you are showing is denial. Please get it, we are not agreeing with you. Most of us do not even play a BLM

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

Perfectly aware of that. Meele is not in disadvantage at all. I cant even kite a MNK at all as BRD and I am not complaining, because my teammate is good enough to put stoneskin on me and let me tank the MNK. PvP is not linear, stop whinning. There are good players here providing you counter strategy, but all you are showing is denial. Please get it, we are not agreeing with you. Most of us do not even play a BLM

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We as in who? You and the last 4 players commenting on the thread? I really really don't believe any of you until you have reached rank 20 or so, because from experience you said it yourself, you are only rank 5. Play more and tell me how the matches turn out for you.

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Originally Posted by OdinTheTainted

We as in who? You and the last 4 players commenting on the thread? I really really don't believe any of you until you have reached rank 20 or so, because from experience you said it yourself, you are only rank 5. Play more and tell me how the matches turn out for you.

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I doubt it is just 4 players, are you ignoring the peopel that disagree with you?

ur a bard ur skills go off no matter what unless ur cced and if u think a 30 sec aoe cc is fair and balanced for pvp with a 100+ sec cooldown having to be used to break it ur 4 quarters retarded esp when even on a dr version its still 15 seconds. once again i realize everyones using a blm on their team and enjoying dominating the ones that dont have one but its very very imbalanced.

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Originally Posted by OdinTheTainted

I'm halfway till 8...What are you rank 30?



That isn't what I asked to see, what is your "Win\Match\Loss" specifically. Unless you have won alittle over 1.4-2.0+ you are not that special. Because I have instances where I had 3-4 kills and didn't win as a warrior because of revivals and my team not being able to keep up

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I'm 24-11, I'd say I'm doing pretty well for myself. And I have no sleep/CC and usually my party doesn't have much of it.

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ur a bard ur skills go off no matter what unless ur cced and if u think a 30 sec aoe cc is fair and balanced for pvp with a 100+ sec cooldown having to be used to break it ur 4 quarters retarded esp when even on a dr version its still 15 seconds.

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Purify is meant to be used when you need it most, not every CC you get. Otherwise there would be no value to CC at all. Just because you lose to something doesn't mean it's retarded. Learn to play. Use the tools at your disposal. Spread out so multiple party members can't be slept. Use range nerf on BLM or WHM to cripple them. There are really a lot of possibilities and they increase as you rank up.

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once again i realize everyones using a blm on their team and enjoying dominating the ones that dont have one but its very very imbalanced.

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Again, I'm not a BLM, and don't usually have one on my team, and have an above average win record.

convrats ur a mage and ur winning in a game that favors mages thats like bravging about winning rock paper scissors againt a person with cerebral paulsey who can only throw scissors

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I'm 24-11, I'd say I'm doing pretty well for myself. And I have no sleep/CC and usually my party doesn't have much of it.

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So you are at .86.

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Originally Posted by seraph1m

ur a bard ur skills go off no matter what unless ur cced and if u think a 30 sec aoe cc is fair and balanced for pvp with a 100+ sec cooldown having to be used to break it ur 4 quarters retarded esp when even on a dr version its still 15 seconds. once again i realize everyones using a blm on their team and enjoying dominating the ones that dont have one but its very very imbalanced.

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I am fine with that. Meele is not in disadvantage and it is not swfitcast that is issue, it is the stoneskin that prevent meele interrupting casting.

learn to play learn to play learn to play learn to play common response when theres a glaring despairity between class types such as melee and ranged and the one on the side with the advantage is trying to use 1 cc break ability to argue a invalid point if monk or drg stun lasted 10 seconds on you and melee were better in pvp you would be bitching more then melle us now not to mention if it hit everyone in a radius

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Originally Posted by seraph1m

convrats ur a mage and ur winning in a game that favors mages thats like bravging about winning rock paper scissors againt a person with cerebral paulsey who can only throw scissors

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1) making light of serious disabilities (esp. ones you can't even spell correctly). is disgusting

2) The game doesn't favor mages. I'm simply playing well. I have been occasionally victimized by sleep just as everyone else has, and MNKs with their "run up to you and stun you" thing drive me nuts. they are probably the cause of most of my losses. DRG has jumps but does strike me as the weaker of the two melee DD. PLD and WAR don't really get targeted until there's nothing left so they don't really have problems either.

3) I'm not a BLM, which is the "mages" that most people are complaining about, not SMN which is little more than a damage machine outside of pvp skills.

Stop QQing about things you're losing to and learn how to beat them. Also learn how to get PVP gear which makes a huge difference over PvE gear @ level 50 battles.

LOL IM JUST PLAYING WELL!!!!!! this guys a pro lets all learn from him cuz obviously gods gift to pvp. the game favors ranged classes i have to burn 4 gcds to begin any dps on a target and i have nothing that forces you to blow ur cc break pvp ability guess who can black mages with sleep summoners with there pet pushback bind potentially our stuns arent enough pressure comparitvley. we do good damage if we can stick to a target but with the amount of things we need to burn a cc break ability on to do that damage effectivley comparative to ranged classes is the issue. that on top of utility we lack u can push dps off ur healer i can feint them and slow them not stop them which is better?

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Originally Posted by seraph1m

LOL IM JUST PLAYING WELL!!!!!! this guys a pro lets all learn from him cuz obviously gods gift to pvp. the game favors ranged classes i have to burn 4 gcds to begin any dps on a target and i have nothing that forces you to blow ur cc break pvp ability guess who can black mages with sleep summoners with there pet pushback bind potentially our stuns arent enough pressure comparitvley. we do good damage if we can stick to a target but with the amount of things we need to burn a cc break ability on to do that damage effectivley comparative to ranged classes is the issue. that on top of utility we lack u can push dps off ur healer i can feint them and slow them not stop them which is better?

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I find your maturity level astuounding and somehow as a result I'm not suprised that you're losing. Your single run on sentence post is so unreadable that it continues to demonstrate your lack of understanding on PvP concepts.

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That isn't what I asked to see, what is your "Win\Match\Loss" specifically. Unless you have won alittle over 1.4-2.0+ you are not that special. Because I have instances where I had 3-4 kills and didn't win as a warrior because of revivals and my team not being able to keep up

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W/L ratio doesn't mean shit, sorry to break your flawed logic. You can have amazing team players / players that always got pretty terrible teams, so by extension a pretty sad w/l and yet when they are in your team they do 4 times better than you ever will. It's just completely irrelevant. Im much more afraid of a guy havin 1.5 k/d and like a bit more than 1.0 w/l ratio that always play in pug than your average joe braggin about everything, beein all the time in premade and just whorin the whole match because hes beein brought down to 60% hp

says the mature individual who resorts to judging someone level of maturity based on grammar. your so cool man i wanna grow up to be just like you. im on a phone and im not writing a document for a proffesional or educational purposes so i dont care about proper grammar.

and all you did that post was insult me personally ignoring valid points on how ranged classes have an advantage. your so mature

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Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

W/L ratio doesn't mean shit, sorry to break your flawed logic. You can have amazing team players / players that always got pretty terrible teams, so by extension a pretty sad w/l and yet when they are in your team they do 4 times better than you ever will. It's just completely irrelevant. Im much more afraid of a guy havin 1.5 k/d and like a bit more than 1.0 w/l ratio that always play in pug than your average joe braggin about everything, beein all the time in premade and just whorin the whole match because hes beein brought down to 60% hp

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I edited my op a bit, to reflect on my experience with a static. You are right, with a static who knows how to coordinate winning is more likely, so I apologize for that, I did all my runs as a pug. After finding a static I won much more.

but you cannot ignore key facts that make melee have a disadvantage in pvp. The animation lock is really bad for a war at times, as well as monks. The sprinting away and being able to cast is also another issue.

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Originally Posted by OdinTheTainted

I edited my op a bit, to reflect on my experience with a static. You are right, with a static who knows how to coordinate winning is more likely, so I apologize for that, I did all my runs as a pug. After finding a static I won much more.

but you cannot ignore key facts that make melee have a disadvantage in pvp. The animation lock is really bad for a war at times, as well as monks. The sprinting away and being able to cast is also another issue.

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I'll agree we're a little underpowered in PVP because of this ridiculous animation problem, but I have to ask:

Are you using Weapon Throw? It removes sprint if done from behind, and can cause Heavy.

Not directed at you, but Sleep isn't that big of a problem in PVP. Get yourself Purify and it's practically not a problem. Not to mention PVP materia/gear. And Fetterward.

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Originally Posted by seraph1m

says the mature individual who resorts to judging someone level of maturity based on grammar. your so cool man i wanna grow up to be just like you. im on a phone and im not writing a document for a proffesional or educational purposes so i dont care about proper grammar.

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Actually one's use of grammar and spelling often does say a lot about that person. I could be wrong and I'm sure you're a fine, upstanding member of real life society. However, the face you're presenting to others on this forum is failing to convey that. I'm not normally super picky about proper English but when your writing is so bad that it's difficult to read, I draw a line there. When I combine this with your demonstrated lack of understanding of PvP concepts (Most of the mechanics in play here are in just about every MMO with PvP and I see pretty much the same amount of complaining about OP crowd control when there are ways to deal with it, I know I'm dealing with someone who either doesn't have a lot of experience with PvP or has not learned from that experience). it tells me that you are fairly likely to have no idea what you are talking about especially when I don't have great difficulty in handling these mechanics myself (and class has little to do with the tactics you employ to deal with it).

You frequently resort to childish use of disability-related insults and display little actual of discussion of tactics, strategy and mechanics. You basically just keep saying "This is OPbecause I lost to it, I don't like it, therefore its broken."

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but you cannot ignore key facts that make melee have a disadvantage in pvp.

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What key facts? There is almost no animation lock in this game except on Jumps and a couple other things that have actual character movement as part of their effect. Sprinting away is of limited effectiveness because Sprint's speed boost is heavily nerfed- any effect that causes weight more than negates Sprint.

Nerfing BRD damage at great range and 100% spell interruption rate more than offset the ability to do things from a distance. A PLD can interrupt any caster with a shield lob. MNKs have that charging stun w/e it's called. Any advantage remaining to ranged DPS is mostly compensated by their overall squishiness.

Been reading and in all fairness. Let's assume sprint and sleep were removed and there was no issue with animations.

I have 1 instant spell and CD abilities left and can do nothing while being attacked after those CD GG.

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Originally Posted by Yoohre_WildRiver

here is your solution do a 20 sec sleep..

smelling salts.. or telling your team to cure you cause cure removes sleep. PURIFY IS A CC REMOVER!

prepare before going into the arena, get your potions and foods and stop complaining

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Having tried them today i can tell you they didn't work (sadly neither did cure for sleeping targets which i could have SWORN worked yesterday).