Ok... I like this comment, and people should get this. Some of us come from a world of FFXI where there were no marks to put on a mob's head. We as a group knew... tank gets hate, we sleep adds, group handles adds, fight what the tank is fighting, and move to the next. If anything more dangerous that can't be slept enters the fight, fight him, back to original mobs. Cardinal rules. I mean guys, when you choose to fight a mob it shows you all the status that is on him including a sleep timer and how long he will be sleep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruminate
Now I asked my cousin during beta, because we strove to be the the guys who marked everything when we found out about it, but I didn't like it. I felt it was not needed, and that if you get use to seeing it and needed it, I was convinced we were becoming soft. LOL
I'd really like to know how people feel about this. Is marking mobs making dd's and people soft? Shouldn't they be aware to the battlefield to know that the mob floating next to the tank, not hurting no one is sleep? I usually at the beginning of a fight let my sleepers know that after a pull I'm doing an overpower or two, and then a flash. After that sleep all you want. :p
There's only one bad dungeon I tanked and that was my first time at the grand company dungeon, because I was not aware of fighting in between the crystals. A black mage called us a sorry group and left, we got a replacement, and won with a little coaching from my Whm who had done it before... no deaths.
Now, I'm not gonna lie, but I don't see how a big number, or chain on the mob is seriously needed for you to tell that mob is awake, being fought, or is sleep, and not moving. When you see me finish my first mob, and move to the next, clearly the mob who's life is going down is the one you should be fighting, not the one flapping its wings chillin. It kinda sucks people expect me to pull off combos and GCD moves, while switching pages to mark a surprise pop so you know what I'm fighting, but I do it.
A word to the Tanks out there.
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09-24-2013, 10:24 PMLuciano_Bozzelli
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09-24-2013, 10:30 PMAwake
It's like the general trend of the DPS is that they dont need any skills with avoiding dmg they dont need any apropriate ilvl gear for the encounter they are doing and they surely need someone to lead and call targets.It's sad but it's true.
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09-24-2013, 11:28 PMEhayte
I think marking the target you are on is important. I don't find 1, 2, 3, 4 etc necessary, DPS and CCers just need to know what mob to currently be fighting - I will take care of the rest, as is my job. If is your job as a CCer to know which targets should be CCed. Sure if you're group is stellar and experienced you might not need it, but not everyone is exceptional all the time : D
I, however, DO NOT feel like my job is to hold your hand and tell you what to do. What fun is it for you if I mark every target you need to CC? You're basically playing whack-a-mole. From your typing and language skills I have to assume that you are intelligent enough to want a more fulfilling experience. I'm happy to lead a dungeon because I like to lead, I find it fun, but I would do it if I was a MNK or a WHM. Give me one single reason that I MUST be in charge of what everyone in the dungeon does because I have thick armor? I would just play a single player game with computers that wouldn't make horrible mistakes if I thought that was fun.
What about a dungeon I've never done? I am expected to be assigned extra work in the form of dungeon research because of my class? Are you requiring me to watch hours of YouTube and Twitch to know exactly what is going on before I do it? How many rhetorical questions do you think I can ask in a row?
Please rely on us tanks to be the man while we are fighting, I am going to save you from getting stomped, I am going to heal myself while you rez a fallen dps, I am going to finish the last 10% of the mob with only one other dps alive, and I am going to have shiny armor. I am not, however, obligated to be your group leader. The person in the group with the attitude and aptitude of a leader should be the leader. -
09-25-2013, 12:16 AMXariann
1. Agreed. And you healer and you DPS, you better do the same. Let's not make it a tank-stigma.
2. Generally I will learn boss fights, read guides, ask friends or watch videos. I will ask how boss fights work when I don't. If you expect that level of knowledge from me, why don't you learn the fights as well? If you did it before me lead it so we don't die. Next time around though I will take lead. I try to be understanding with my party, so please return the favour.
When I know the dungeon, however, do what I tell you.
3. I want to mark, I don't like it when others do. But now that I have marked, why aren't you following those marks? Why aren't you allowing me to finish the pull, so I am not forced to charge in to tank a group that I wanted to pull far back to avoid the patrol? Now it becomes MY fault because "you pulled the patrol." Well, I saw the patrol, YOU didn't let me lead.
It's always the tanks and the healers that make mistakes, the DPS are never noticed. -
09-25-2013, 12:20 AMXariannI have been told by some DPS, "You can't tank this with this gear" and they go and DPS the same encounter with the same level of gear I have. It makes me sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Awake
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09-25-2013, 12:28 AMXariannThat's a good point, but also not a good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruminate
I have played with DPS who can't tell which mob to focus if there is no mark. So instead of taking the mobs one by one, they get taken down at the same time(ish). If it takes 45 seconds to kill a group of mobs (fictitious number), it's best for the healer to have the first mob die after 15, the second die after 30 and the third day after 45, than having all 3 mobs die at around 38-45 seconds. -
09-25-2013, 12:56 AMViridianaI can think of tanks I've had where that strategy would have gotten me aggro on my first ability. If not the first, then surely before my opening rotation ends. Tanks who would Shield Lob one mob, then do the full RoH combo on something else. So either I just unloaded into his SL mob, or smacked his RoH mob before he did and stole aggro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geobryn
Basically, the assist strat can and does work in most cases. When it fails, though, I get stuck wondering if it's me or the tank messing up. At least with marking I can readily identify which of us it is. If there's a big #1 punching my face and I haven't done anything unusual, odds are it's the tank. If #1 is on the tank but #2 is punching my face, well, that's clearly my fault. -
09-25-2013, 01:01 AMRuminateIf the healer is at full MP at the end of the fight, does it matter?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xariann
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09-25-2013, 01:35 AMEhayteNot technically but it potentially wastes CDs that could be used later, mental capacity of tanks and healers, and makes for a more stressful dungeon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruminate
If you think that all 3 targets should be killed at the same rate without some mechanic specifically limiting you to that option, you are being a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian, because it is certainly the least efficient way to approach that scenario. -
09-25-2013, 01:53 AMGalkaBikini
I've always refused to mark targets, even in other games. All it does is make the game easier for bad players. I'm here to be challenged. However I have experienced in many games where a designated "main assist" was chosen and it was often times a DPS. I do find it funny though that the DPS can't simply glance at the HP bars and see which one is the lowest. And if and when they do pull agro - apparently switching targets is hard.
Also find it hilarious that people assume the tank is supposed to know the dungeon, the pulls and the mechanics before even queuing for it, and no one else has to do that. Ever notice how it's always some EZ mode DPS class complaining about nonsense like this?