Common mistakes new tanks make

Yes we do tend to do damage and wake up sleepers but you have to understand that as a tank we are focused on getting has much agro as possible and facing the enemy away from the party as best we can. While you know what mob you put to sleep the only indication we have is tinny little purple things coming off their head and most of the time with all the spells and junk going off we can not see that at all. The solution is not that the tank should be on the lookout for sleepers as that is not our job. The solution is you should mark your sleepers so we know to leave them out of our agro rotation. Or if you are just to lazy to mark yourself you can ask the tank to mark them before he pulls. I do this all the time. Expecting the tank to know who you put to sleep without telling him in some way is just stupid.

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Originally Posted by Eboric

Expecting the tank to know who you put to sleep without telling him in some way is just stupid.

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Just like the party list, would be nice if the enmity list showed the marker icons on that along with some effects like sleep on there, or be able to have 2 markers up on one mob. One for marker, one for effect someone else put 3+O target #3, O currently being slept.

Actually I simply know which mobs are put to sleep. The sleep sound effect is extremely distinct, mobs get bubbles coming out of their heads when put to sleep, and I think it is obvious even from the targeting arrows.

Part of being able to tank properly is awareness, and I think all tanks should learn to be aware of the whole battlefield all the time. Knowing which mobs are asleep is a good first step.

8. Positioning
This isn't just about keeping the boss or mob facing away from the party/healer.

The last boss in copperbell: If you keep the boss parked near the last wall the adds run to break down, melee DPS does not have to run back and forth between the boss and the adds everytime an add appears.

1st boss in Stone Vigil: If you keep the boss in the middle of the arena, when he breaks away and runs to a wall in order to AOE breath, everyone has more time to get out of the way, because he takes longer to run to the wall.

2nd boss in Stone Vigil: If you keep the boss near the entrance the cyclones have further to travel and again PT members have more warning.

Zfz's example in Brayflox above: If you park the boss on top of where the adds spawn then you can easily flash them the very moment they appear.

Watch for what a boss does movement wise and where adds or mechanics appear from. Moving the boss to an appropriate spot may completely change the fight for the better.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

Actually I simply know which mobs are put to sleep. The sleep sound effect is extremely distinct, mobs get bubbles coming out of their heads when put to sleep, and I think it is obvious even from the targeting arrows.

Part of being able to tank properly is awareness, and I think all tanks should learn to be aware of the whole battlefield all the time. Knowing which mobs are asleep is a good first step.

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While I can't argue that mentality, we're talking about failsafes here. Marking a sleeping target so that I know to avoid hitting it for the time being can and does help if it's a busy moment, lots of crap is going down everywhere, and you just don't happen to catch the sound of the sleep spell and you can't see the small sleep bubbles. If you end up in a rhythm of rotating while pulling aggro, it can be easy to miss even for the best of people. Nothing wrong with a mark there as a failsafe.

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Originally Posted by sybase

While I don't know the mechanics to the fight in this screenshot, good dps will pick up adds aggro'd to the healer and take them to the tank to be picked up by a normal flash rotation. Quite often you don't want the tank running to adds on the healer with boss in tow allowing the boss to AoE the whole group. However, the tanks response of "not my problem" is not acceptable.

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Since it is a healer aggro I find it better to just shield lop the mob over rather than having to fight off hate from a dps, especially when its a long range ability that generate hate.

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Originally Posted by Avalon_Albrook

While I can't argue that mentality, we're talking about failsafes here. Marking a sleeping target so that I know to avoid hitting it for the time being can and does help if it's a busy moment, lots of crap is going down everywhere, and you just don't happen to catch the sound of the sleep spell and you can't see the small sleep bubbles. If you end up in a rhythm of rotating while pulling aggro, it can be easy to miss even for the best of people. Nothing wrong with a mark there as a failsafe.

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Got to agree with Zfz on the "awareness" part because, it's a factor that helps differentiate good from bad tanks. I find it best to be the one leading the group in fights and marking rather than have others mark for me, it makes it easier since I'll know which to attack next. But if you start off with a cc pull, just have flash ready to use when they are near, and another thing is tanking the mobs away from the range class, that way you will know which mob is heading toward them. Whenever I switch over to dps I notice that majority of the tanks will tank close to the healer & range.

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Originally Posted by Arukai

"I before E except after C".

Truth is, in languages, that saying has no basis whatsoever. Some fights require movement; first boss in the Temple a definite case in point. (And yes, I've had melee DPS tell me to stand still in that fight...) Movement is a thing tanks have to learn to do at some point; minimising the risks and the issues with it is where the skill really lies. Slime in Copperbell is the first real lesson in movement.

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Agreed - this tip is somewhat situational. I was doing Hydra with the standard dual-Tank setup to deal with Triumverate move. Other tank died so tanked the rest of the battle solo by continuously rotating around him to try and stay on his flank to avoid the possible insta-kill Triumverate frontal attack as well as stay out of the rear conal tail-attack. Won using this method but probably would have dropped dead to a random Triumverate if I attempted to tank it solo face-up for any extended period of time.

Thought I should post in here as a newbie tank. A little bit of background: I have literally near zero MMO experience, especially when it comes to tanking.

I have a cute little Lv17 Lalafell Gladiator I made in Tonberry. Just finished running Sastasha, and I must say I am enjoying tanking - taking the lead, being the center of attention, and generally trying to keep everyone as safe as can be. However, I'm here to look for some improvement advice.

I noticed right away that Riot Blade is not the best option to tank unless there's more than 4 enemies I have to consistently juggle between. I blame this to the rather bad targeting system in the game though. I only use Riot Blade tanking, when I cannot control the mobs via tab targeting, since I usually don't end up keeping the enmity even on all the enemies. My basic idea is to switch between each mob in a rotation, and use Savage Blade combo on each one, before going back to the first one, to help maintain the enmity - this is what I do when I am not tanking more than 3 enemies, as it is easy enough to switch between two or three enemies. Is this the best way to do this, or is there a better way I should be made aware of? Another problem I have is when one of the mages (I don't know which one, but it's not Arcanist) does that knockback skill, which I feel puts off my Savage Blade enmity spreading combo.

Is it also easier for the tank to ask people to group around him, so that if any one of them starts targeting the non-tank, then I can just use a Flash to get things back under control?

I'll have to try and get rid of that moving around as a tank problem - it's an inherent problem, since I main a Dragoon on Cerberus, and Dragoons are all about flank/rear strikes.

I think I should also learn how to mark targets - what is the best way to do this?

I'd like all these pointers, so I can start looking forward to improving on my next run as a tank, starting with Tam-Tara Deepcroft.

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Originally Posted by juniglee

1) Is it also easier for the tank to ask people to group around him, so that if any one of them starts targeting the non-tank, then I can just use a Flash to get things back under control?

2) I'll have to try and get rid of that moving around as a tank problem - it's an inherent problem, since I main a Dragoon on Cerberus, and Dragoons are all about flank/rear strikes.

3) I think I should also learn how to mark targets - what is the best way to do this?.

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Before I go into your questions, I want to point out that Fast Blade -> Savage Blade (-> Rage of Halone at 26) should always be your primary combo; if you look at the tooltips, you'll notice they say "Increases enmity". Make sure you always start a combo with Fast Blade, the damage multipliers also help with keeping the hate in check. As long as you start a fight with a "Shield Lob"-> group Flash, and everyone else is pacing their spells/skills (and attacking YOUR target), you might be able to hold the hate all through the fight (but pop off an occasional flash if need be). Your use of rotation is good: stick with it. You really shouldn't need Riot Blade, as its main purpose is to generate MP, and I usually don't need to flash that much if I stick with the above routine.

Now for your questions/comments:

1) They shouldn't be near you during the fight (you want to keep AoEs and the like away from healers and mages so they don't get casting interrupts). However, make sure they know that in the case of adds (mobs that aggro to them - mid-fights pops) to come by you so that you can whip out a flash. You can also shield lob with a macro like /ac "Shield Lob" <mo> as long as their close enough. Make sure your zoomed out so you can see when they pop and maintain awareness of the immediate area.

2) You should move around sometimes, especially when its AoE related. It takes some pressure off the healer, and if they don't need to cure as much, you stand a better chance of keeping hate and doing your combo instead of flashing.

3) Make sure your party knows your targeting/fighting order (e.g.: "I start with Attack1 and count my way up"). I have a macro that marks my "Shield Lob" target as Attack1, then use something like a /mk Attack2 <mo> (Attack3,etc.) to mark the others.

Not sure if it's been mentioned but it's something I noticed I do when tanking yesterday. When a mobs health is getting low don't worry about dps getting agro because the mob will likely be dead before it does any serious damage to the DPS. This will free you up to start building up high threat on the next mob so DPS can start doing full damage immediately.

Also more generally you'll often come across fights were a lot of lower health mobs spawn. Don't worry too much about tanking these because the dps can normally wipe them out without much trouble on their own. Just make sure that none of the mobs go for the healer.

EDIT

On the sleep/general CC issue I'll generally avoid hitting mobs that have been CC'd but it's not always practical to do so because I might have different plans for that mob that the player applying the CC isn't aware of. Ultimately the tank should be marking the mobs they want CC'd so that any confusion is minimised.