[suggetion] SE please stop with the hand holding

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

That's because 95% of the games population has already left. We want Final Fantasy, not a World of Warcraft clone. This game is utterly easy. It requires no thinking or strategy at all. It is just mashing 1, X, or A.

Hell since Yoshi-P has taken over I haven't seen 1 single thing from him actually impress me. All he is doing is turning this into WoW and refining features that should have been in place from the start. Hell we asked for Quests, and look what we got. Garbage fetch and kill crap (with no storyline). Also guess what, they are utterly: EASY.

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They left because of the UI and lack of content. Not one review said anything about level of difficulty (although it might have come up if anyone got that far). SE made it loud and clear that this would be a more casual friendly game. But you still act shocked about it.

It's not that I don't understand. Everything I loved about wow got yanked from me with Cata (it wasn't about difficulty, so don't bother), and I was angry. I also know the fun of a community, group driven game. But this isn't FFXI, it's FFXIV. A new game. You can't bring your expectations for more of the same, when SE announced it would not be the same.

But no matter your feelings, it's no excuse to bash people unfairly. It's not just that it's immature, it divides the community even farther, which most of you claim to want, a good community. The truth about community, however, is that people are going to think differently. There's no right or wrong about that. What's important is that we respect each other.

I don't think there's a single casual/relaxed player in this community that doesn't want to see you guys have your extreme content (yes I'm assuming a bit, but I'm also going off of forum posts), but we all have to share the playground.

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Originally Posted by Morticous

Stop whining about the game being too hard!

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I haven't seen anyone whining about the game being too hard.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

It's funny you made that eve statement about logging on to do training things.
Currently, leves is all that people do to rank up now. There is no grind in this game outside of leves

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Lol....what?

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Originally Posted by Chezen

They left because of the UI and lack of content. Not one review said anything about level of difficulty (although it might have come up if anyone got that far). SE made it loud and clear that this would be a more casual friendly game. But you still act shocked about it.

It's not that I don't understand. Everything I loved about wow got yanked from me with Cata (it wasn't about difficulty, so don't bother), and I was angry. I also know the fun of a community, group driven game. But this isn't FFXI, it's FFXIV. A new game. You can't bring your expectations for more of the same, when SE announced it would not be the same.

But no matter your feelings, it's no excuse to bash people unfairly. It's not just that it's immature, it divides the community even farther, which most of you claim to want, a good community. The truth about community, however, is that people are going to think differently. There's no right or wrong about that. What's important is that we respect each other.

I don't think there's a single casual/relaxed player in this community that doesn't want to see you guys have your extreme content (yes I'm assuming a bit, but I'm also going off of forum posts), but we all have to share the playground.



I haven't seen anyone whining about the game being too hard.

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you haven't? you should really read more.

how much more divided can a community get than if someone disagrees with another people on both sides say leave the game?

:S I keep seeing 'Don't want X content to take months'.

Well it shouldn't take too long (but not too short).

Content needs to be DIFFICULT. Not over the top time consuming.

So, let's see - SE originally tried to make this game more casual hoping that it'd attract more players, that is totally understandable from a financial point of view. However, it seems like that hasn't been going well at all, AND they've also lost a good chunk of the "core" FF fans. Remember, time is the matter here before this game dies out, because there're loads of games that'd potentially steal even more customers from this coming out in the 2nd half of this year. To name a few, Tera, Soul&Blade or even Diablo3!

Oh btw, the word "grinding" never existed back in the days when FFXI was released in NA. When things work well together in a mmo, leveling up shouldn't be much of a chore (thus the connotation of "grinding"). I enjoyed leveling up with old and new friends in FFXI that I never felt like it was boring. Yes, it was still repetitive as some would say but you always get to talk about things with friends and soemtimes people screwed up and aggro'd while getting to the camps...etc etc. Those just added more to the whole experience.

Sure the wait time to get into a PT in FFXI could be frustrating, but that can be solved with other mechanisms such as cross server instances that fit a wider spectrum of levels so that people can meet up and do things fast if they couldn't form a normal xp PT.

I fell in love with FF11 for two main reasons:

1) The journey from 1-75 was FULL of adventures and surprises and accomplishments and FUN!!!!!, the game most certainly did not start at level 75. The adventure started at level 1. I remember being under level 10, not even knowing of linkshells yet, getting 5 randoms together in Windy, and whipping them through the rank 1 ~ 3 missions, not because they were easy, but because I had done 1 and 2 many times and knew what needed to be done, and I needed their help to get through 3.

2) The game was challenging and complex. From the first time you set foot outside one of the starter cities, you had to be on your toes to stay alive, succeed and progress; and you had to pay attention to the world around you to learn how it worked so you could operate effectively. There was none of this pandering to the lowest common denominator of the masses BS to try and increase sales (and profits)...at least, for a time.

I realize "time-sink" does not equate to "challenge", but what's the real difference between something which is a time-sink and something which is so challenging it takes ten attempts to succeed??? I guess that answer depends on perseverance and attitude as much as anything else.

I cried every time SE made FF11 easier in an attempt to make it more appealing. The only thing SE accomplished was alienating their loyal players who enjoyed and relished the game for what it was in the hope of making more money.

Was I upset the first time I saw someone who had blasted their way through the CoP missions in a month after the 15th round of simplification? Of course! That was something that took my friends and I a significant amount of work and brainpower to accomplish, and in which, I must be honest, I took some measure of pride. To have been through CoP while a large part of the population was still stuck on their Promy's was no small feat.

I cannot ever recall a time while playing FF11 during which I spent hours "waiting around, doing nothing". Craft, dig, leg-work completing in-depth story cut-scenes to progress with missions, normal good ol' fashioned quests for fun and profit, research and preparation for "End Game" events, farming, NM hunts (O.Hat, do you need it?), and if all else fails "/sea all invite XX-XX" and put together an xp pt.

If you were dumb enough to sit around for hours with your flag up waiting for an invite, then maybe hellokittyonline is indeed the game for you; but for the love of the Gods, please stop ruining my FF14.


I, for one, do not want an easy MMORPG. Everyone seems to get hung up on the MMO half of the MMORPG title, and few ppl ever bring up the RPG aspect. Just because something is designed to be massively multiplayer, doesn't mean it must pander to the masses. This is, first and foremost, an RPG; and I don't want to play the role of a retarded, inbred, red-headed step-child who is intimidated by van sized squirrels which in no way react to what goes on around them, who is thrilled because their spell animations are twice as big as they used to be, and who needs to be lead by the nose down the primrose garden path to the big shiny chest of gold at the end while only using one brain cell at a time to put the other foot down in front of the previous one (hopefully on the appropriate side).

TL;DR: OP, mad props; anyone who skipped the post and went to this line, go play something else, probably something that doesn't involve reading.

(I know...READING?!?!?!?!......in a VIDEO GAME?!?!?!?!... /SHOCKED!!!!!!!!!!!)

"and I don't want to play the role of a retarded, inbred, red-headed step-child who is intimidated by van sized squirrels which in no way react to what goes on around them, who is thrilled because their spell animations are twice as big as they used to be, and who needs to be lead by the nose down the primrose garden path to the big shiny chest of gold at the end while only using one brain cell at a time to put the other foot down in front of the previous one (hopefully on the appropriate side)."

@ HunkaMunka - I love it XD. +1 to you sir!

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Originally Posted by HunkaMunka

I fell in love with FF11 for two main reasons:

1) The journey from 1-75 was FULL of adventures and surprises and accomplishments and FUN!!!!!, the game most certainly did not start at level 75. The adventure started at level 1. I remember being under level 10, not even knowing of linkshells yet, getting 5 randoms together in Windy, and whipping them through the rank 1 ~ 3 missions, not because they were easy, but because I had done 1 and 2 many times and knew what needed to be done, and I needed their help to get through 3.

2) The game was challenging and complex. From the first time you set foot outside one of the starter cities, you had to be on your toes to stay alive, succeed and progress; and you had to pay attention to the world around you to learn how it worked so you could operate effectively. There was none of this pandering to the lowest common denominator of the masses BS to try and increase sales (and profits)...at least, for a time.

Oh, and trying to figure out how skillchain and magic burst work with other new adventures in the Buriburi outpost. The journey to Jueno, and the tower in Qufim where you have to go through for a mission.... those were the good old days. And let's not forget first exploring places like Garliage without the help of any high levels.... ;) Maybe some of these do not ring a bell to some of you but I started FFXI when it was first launched in NA.

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In FF14, none of the above happened and this is why you feel the game being so empty and hollow...and it has nothing to do with the level cap.

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Originally Posted by Winterclaw

This game has to be designed with making money in mind. If instant gratification is the only way SE can get this turned into profitability, than that's what they should do. Remember, they are competing with other games out there. I quit eve because it took forever to get around and I got to the point where if I wanted to keep doing PvE, I hit a wall where I pretty much could only advance by logging in once or twice a week to update my training queue. When I realized that I might have to do that for another month or two before I could start progressing in PvE again (and I couldn't level my alts in the meantime) I decided it was time to quit..

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Eve is not a good comparison to even FFXI as its method of progression was entirely time-based and nothing you did, no matter how much or how little or how aggressively you play - in terms of learning skills - would change that. The closest you could come was to train skills that helped increase the rate at which you learned others.

That said, Eve's approach to gameplay is also very, very different different. Yours is a common argument among people who Eve simply didn't "click" with. Eve is ultimately about PvP, politics, wars between corporations, etc. etc...

It's also not a game designed with fans of "instant gratification" in mind.

Honestly, I can't get into Eve either. I've tried it multiple times and greatly admire its depth and complexity and all the possibilities it presents to the player who seeks them out. It's just not "my gig". I can, however, still admire it for what it does accomplish for the type of player it's geared toward....


And, on that note, the remark about FF games being traditionally more difficult and not having a lot of hand-holding. Just about any FF game you can think of in the numbered series fits that description. FFXI fit that description. There's nothing "out of place" about the idea that XIV should or at least could fit that description as well. Long-term progression, exploration, difficult battles and long, complex storylines are all staples of the series.

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Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Besides, what is hard content? Oh look, I have to grind for an hour to get a coin and do that for two years to get a good weapon? Oh look, I have to fight this one mob with my party for several hours for the only reason of him having a ton of HP?

You want real hard content you need high-end pvp. But not that many people like it and I don't think it'll ever be in game.

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The first paragraph is a disingenuous question that you respond to with cherry-picked answers.

The second one, about "hard content", is your opinion, not universal fact.

"Hard" is a subjective thing. I know people for whom PvP - what you consider "real hard content" - comes easy. They have a natural knack for it and can beat so-called "vets" with little trouble. For others, they have to constantly work at it, and it's still difficult to them. For some, like myself, we're a sitting duck practically no matter who we're up against.

Regarding "difficulty" in a PvE context...

When I was going through CoP in FFXI, some of those missions were *damn* difficult to complete. Others would tell you they were "cake".

Same with some of the Zilart missions, Aht Urghan Missions, etc.

Some people went 1/20+ on beating Maat and considered it almost impossible without a lot of luck. Others beat him on their 1st or 2nd try and would insist it was a cake-walk.

Point is, what you're arguing is purely your own point-of-view that applies to. It's not a universal absolute that applies to everyone.

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Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Besides, some of us prefer fun in general over hard content for the sake of hard content.

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This remark was obviously intended to be "clever". Unfortunately, it only makes you look arrogant and/or willfully ignorant.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

SE want to get other players and it seem they want wow players. Too me if they make this game somewhat like FFXI hardcore feel then it would fail like FFXI. It wont have any more players then what FFXI have. Which would mean FFXI would die or FFXIV would die. I think if SE give us hardcore players something then i be happy with the hand holding.

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Umm... FFXI didn't "fail".

FFXI maintained ~500,000 players and over 30 servers for 7+ years - the vast majority of its time in service. They only just did their first server merge, what... about a year ago? There are few, if any other MMOs that launched when FFXI did that could make that claim 7+ years after they launched. And it's done this despite doing "everything wrong", according to what many claim "a MMO must have" to be successful.

Ironically, newer MMOs, designed to cater more to the "casual" crowd - those looking for faster progress and more rewards with less time and effort - have fallen below FFXI's numbers in their first year, in as little as several months in some cases. Some MMOs designed in that mold have since been taken offline or made F2P because they couldn't maintain enough paying subscribers to remain P2P.

FFXI has been far from a failure.