Relationships of the Twelve

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Originally Posted by jesseleewelch

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RPGpNo0r_u...veCalendar.png

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This calendar is what we are referring to when we say they appear to have changed the month associations prior to launch. You're looking at that earlier version that existed in the pre-release descriptions.

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Originally Posted by Catapult

This calendar is what we are referring to when we say they appear to have changed the month associations prior to launch. You're looking at that earlier version that existed in the pre-release descriptions.

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OMG, you are right! I had no idea that they had changed it up on me like that. Is there another calendar out there or are the devs still switching things up on us? Either way, I removed the old calendar but I am keeping the chart as it is relevant to understanding the relationships between the twelve. Thank you again for alerting me to this!

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I've never really seen a "family tree" of the relationships among the Twelve that was both accurate and easy to follow, so I figured I'd (try to) make one, myself. Here's Version 1.0.0, though I've saved it in an easily-altered format for all improvements and corrections.


http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9bcc0bbf.png

FULL VERSION



This leaves one thing that I should ask the X|V community, and one thing that I should ask the X|V development team:

Of the Community:
Is it clear, and do you see any obvious mistakes? How should it be changed, or how could it be improved? Do you like it?

Of the Development Team:
I realize that the Twelve may not be any of the things we believe them to be, so I ask this purely of their mythological representations in the eyes of people that follow this religious system: Is the information provided in their three-sentence biographies exhaustive? Is there more information about individuals or their relationships that would make this more accurate?

Some Possible Example Questions:

• Is Nymeia the mother of Althyk's children? (A little Zeus/Hera thing going on, maybe?)
• Which parent(s) are Llymlaen and Nophica related through? Half-sisters? Whole sisters?
• Do missing half or entire parentages mean that they were likely born to mortals and/or became gods on their own?
• Do the generations that I've implied actually exist in this three-tiered system?
• They're all ancient and timeless, I assume, so would we think of many of them as "the same age" visually, or do they resemble their discrepant ages statically across all time?
  

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Just curious: Where did you find out the polarities of the gods? Also, (somewhat related) do we know what the polarities of the Primals are? all Umbral? both? neither?

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Originally Posted by Akubikumo

Just curious: Where did you find out the polarities of the gods? Also, (somewhat related) do we know what the polarities of the Primals are? all Umbral? both? neither?

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Each of the Twelve is associated with one of the twelve moons (months), and each two successive months belong to the same element, with one being the astral and one being the umbral. Take ice, for example. Halone and Menphina are both representatives of ice, but Halone is the "First Astral Moon" whereas Menphina is the "First Umbral Moon," months 01 and 02 respectively.

As for the primals I have no idea. When it comes to Eorzean mythology, astral and umbral often have representatives, but when it comes to tangible objects, astral and umbral are often said to just "exist in all things."

So, i'm finding myself tossing and turning at night trying to wrap my head around this lol. Its maddening. So I tried merging your family tree with the elemntal wheel, just to see if any patterns popped out. and some did!...kinda....

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...4at12210PM.png

pretty chaotic really, except the odd fact that 3 sets of siblings run parallel horizontally across it.

Nald'Thal -> Oschon
Nophica -> Llymean
Althyk -> Nymeia

otherwise its all over the place. If I fill in the patten symmetrically, we get this:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...4at13446PM.png

(In the bottom image i removed the known connections, leaving the unknown ones, some are kinda possible, others not so much :p)

BUT, when I creatively (cheat) arrange them based on polarity, suddenly there's symmetry! (dashed lines are implied/possible relationships)

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...t13139PM-1.png

I have absolutely no idea what any of this means. I've been trying anything to make some kind of sense out of all this so im desperately looking for any kind of pattern. I figure they've either obscured the real story (which they must know), or they've botched it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Akubikumo

So, i'm finding myself tossing and turning at night trying to wrap my head around this lol. Its maddening. So I tried merging your family tree with the elemntal wheel, just to see if any patterns popped out. and some did!...kinda....

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...4at12210PM.png

pretty chaotic really, except the odd fact that 3 sets of siblings run parallel horizontally across it.

Nald'Thal -> Oschon
Nophica -> Llymean
Althyk -> Nymeia

otherwise its all over the place. If I fill in the patten symmetrically, we get this:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...4at13446PM.png

(In the bottom image i removed the known connections, leaving the unknown ones, some are kinda possible, others not so much :p)

BUT, when I creatively (cheat) arrange them based on polarity, suddenly there's symmetry! (dashed lines are implied/possible relationships)

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...t13139PM-1.png

I have absolutely no idea what any of this means. I've been trying anything to make some kind of sense out of all this so im desperately looking for any kind of pattern. I figure they've either obscured the real story (which they must know), or they've botched it.

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This is a really interesting idea, overlapping the circle of elements with Anonymoose's chart. I wonder if the answer to all our questions will be revealed when the "lore library" comes out... When does that come out anyway?

I think y'all are stuck trying to represent these relationships in two dimensions. Try switching it into three and your vectors will begin to tesselate.

And don't worry, once 'Moose has clobbered his sticky loregasm together, I'll Echo back to two months ago when he got our fragile post-Descent palettes tantalised with his hoary lore-y promises and hand it to him ready-made.

By the time our mind=blown minds are back in a concientric format, it'll be the 11th June... and we all know what that means!
The End of an Era happened exactly seven months prior. :mad:

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Originally Posted by Mjollnir

I think y'all are stuck trying to represent these relationships in two dimensions. Try switching it into three and your vectors will begin to tesselate.[/SIZE]

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I thought the same thing! I thought this might not be circle, but rather a spiral. But, alas, my weak brain cannot handle that. I even thought we might be dealing with a deforming pattern, as in:

http://www.cgl.uwaterloo.ca/~csk/pro...s/ipd/ipd3.png

but damn that makes my head hurt. instead of trying this i just try to psychoanalyze the developers: how much are they in control of this narrative? Is this all just an input error somewhere in SE thats cascaded into a chaotic mess? or is there an actual plan behind all this?

I don't know what we're talking about, but I have the strangest urge to buy some vintage Spirograph.

I guess I'll just come right out and say it... this thread is in desperate need of dev attention!