Raid boss Drop question on translation

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Originally Posted by Maxthunder

Do you seriously think they are gonna allow you to get the best gear in the game with tokens? Theres a high probablity that they wont and a slim to none chance that they will.

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Where was it said that tokens would be used on lower teir gear and not the main drops?

That seems kind of retarted and kinda makes the whole token system seem pointless. I would assume the tokens would be used on the main drops for example darklight and other stuff. It wouldn't be an issue if the balance was right. for example using tokens to get your hdl isn't going to undervalue hdl if it takes you a month or more of token farming to get them. and even for the less than hardcore that month could easily become 2 or 3.

there's no reason not to use tokens on the main drops it's just a case of getting the pricing right. having a mini version of gears seems worthless

that'd be like trading totems in for a mini version of a garuda weapon absolutely worthless

i remember saying the base endgame would drop token for a certain version of x gear, while its counterpart "heroic" mode would drops other tokens for an augmented version. Don't remember saying some gear would not obtainable with tokens

I'm always amazed on how some people here seem to have never played other MMOs.

Limitations on how much gear you can acquire in a certain period of time from raids is a common rule in MMORPG. Most major MMOs lock you out of raid zones for up to one week once you cleared the raid. Having a chance to roll on loot three times a week and still do it for tokens is a luxury in comparison.

And in every MMORPG I have a good laugh at the supposed "hardcores" that would like to be able to raid 24/7 and complain their eyes out about the limitations, without realizing that if there were no limitations in place, they'd be out of stuff to do and bored to death in three weeks.

But of course you can't expect logic from people that base their life on raiding every single day on a MMO.

I think a 1, 2 or 3 (max) hours lockout would be fine. A party could cycle through different dungeons, if so.

like:
1. you do CC;
2. you do AV;
3. you do other Dungeon;
4. you go back to CC.

This way it would be possible to form parties in an easier way, since you can take in people with different needs (2 might need CC, 3 AV, etc...).

Like some do now with final AF fights; get people who need any final AF fight and then do them all to please everyone.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

I'm always amazed on how some people here seem to have never played other MMOs.

Limitations on how much gear you can acquire in a certain period of time from raids is a common rule in MMORPG. Most major MMOs lock you out of raid zones for up to one week once you cleared the raid. Having a chance to roll on loot three times a week and still do it for tokens is a luxury in comparison.

And in every MMORPG I have a good laugh at the supposed "hardcores" that would like to be able to raid 24/7 and complain their eyes out about the limitations, without realizing that if there were no limitations in place, they'd be out of stuff to do and bored to death in three weeks.

But of course you can't expect logic from people that base their life on raiding every single day on a MMO.

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That's the main issue here, people never played anything else (beside XI) and don't understand that having such lockout is pretty much normal. Even if you are a hardcore player, if the raid difficulty is adjusted properly, raiding every single day won't make you progress that faster.

Why? Because you make encounters more and more gear dependant, gear that you obtain during the firsts bosses of a raid. So if boss #5 have a really tight DPS check and requires people wearing gear from the previous bosses, due to the weekly lockout, even the most hardcore players won't be able to obtain loots faster. (Let's say that one single pair of pants can drop every week on boss #3, then it will take 1 month, no matter what, to get 4 players with new pants).

Same for tokens dropping of bosses. Due to lockout, it's easy for game designers to determinate way in advance how fast players will get gear and progress through encounters they designed. That's one of the basic of a theme park MMO.

Hardcore players will still have an advantage by raiding more. They will get to practice more and learn/get used to mechanics faster. Meaning that as soon as gear isn't a barrier anymore, they will be able to defeat a boss, while casual players may still be progressing on first bosses.

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I think a 1, 2 or 3 (max) hours lockout would be fine. A party could cycle through different dungeons, if so.

like:
1. you do CC;
2. you do AV;
3. you do other Dungeon;
4. you go back to CC.

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Such content (CC/AV/DH/Primals) should have a daily lockout, with an improved drop rate off course. Those are way too small to be considered as a full raid (only 1 real boss), I think 1 day lockout would work fine. If you do everything that's already a good amount of time spent in-game. Then you can just do something else until the reset occurs.

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Originally Posted by Antipika

That's the main issue here, people never played anything else (beside XI) and don't understand that having such lockout is pretty much normal. Even if you are a hardcore player, if the raid difficulty is adjusted properly, raiding every single day won't make you progress that faster.

Why? Because you make encounters more and more gear dependant, gear that you obtain during the firsts bosses of a raid. So if boss #5 have a really tight DPS check and requires people wearing gear from the previous bosses, due to the weekly lockout, even the most hardcore players won't be able to obtain loots faster. (Let's say that one single pair of pants can drop every week on boss #3, then it will take 1 month, no matter what, to get 4 players with new pants).

Same for tokens dropping of bosses. Due to lockout, it's easy for game designers to determinate way in advance how fast players will get gear and progress through encounters they designed. That's one of the basic of a theme park MMO.

Hardcore players will still have an advantage by raiding more. They will get to practice more and learn/get used to mechanics faster. Meaning that as soon as gear isn't a barrier anymore, they will be able to defeat a boss, while casual players may still be progressing on first bosses.



Such content (CC/AV/DH/Primals) should have a daily lockout, with an improved drop rate off course. Those are way too small to be considered as a full raid (only 1 real boss), I think 1 day lockout would work fine. If you do everything that's already a good amount of time spent in-game. Then you can just do something else until the reset occurs.

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All the dungeons are getting changed, so all their mapouts will be different in ARR. They are being redesigned to take longer to do.

And the difference between a mmo like WoW with long lockouts and FFXI/XIV is that one has long lockouts but bosses WILL drop rare stuff, no matter if its a repeat drop, while in ffxiv right now it is only 15m lockout but abysmal drop rates that could leave you with nothing for days.

I would chose long lockout and guaranteed drop over abysmal drop and spamming content anyday. There will be more content to do, thus better things to do with ones time than run one dungeon all day.

I made the same suggestion to that TERA mmo that they bump up the lockout but increase the drop rates a long time ago, but they suck. K-mmo are the same way with short lockouts but stupidly low dropouts. Do not want.

It's not really that all items are going to be guaranteed drop anyways. There is still RNG involved as to what will be one of the drops, so you could end up seeing the same 2-3 things for multiple runs. There might be Some things may have a lower chance to show up in the loot, but at least there will always be something, and something is better than nothing.

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Originally Posted by Maxthunder

Do you seriously think they are gonna allow you to get the best gear in the game with tokens? Theres a high probablity that they wont and a slim to none chance that they will. We do have info on the drops (speculation somewhat based off what what said during an interview). I cant find the original interview this will have to do.

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Last time I checked, the best weapons in the game could be obtained by tokens and they are the same versions as the randomly dropped weapons *coughprimalscough*.

So, if the current primal loot system foreshadows in any way the future raid loot system, then there is a high probability that the best gear in the game will be equally obtainable by tokens as by random boss drops, and a slim to none chance that it wont.

If anything, the non token-obtainable versions will be equivalent to a HQ version of the token-obtainable versions and wont have much of a statistical difference between the two other than for epeen purposes.

On topic: Could we please get a rep response as to the meaning of this aforementioned "lottery system"? My initial interpretation was that you could only do the same dungeon 2 or 3 times a week and thus is a reference to lock out periods. But others think it might have to do with rolling on loot... In any case a rep response clarifying this issue would be much appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Matsume

On topic: Could we please get a rep response as to the meaning of this aforementioned "lottery system"? My initial interpretation was that you could only do the same dungeon 2 or 3 times a week and thus is a reference to lock out periods. But others think it might have to do with rolling on loot... In any case a rep response clarifying this issue would be much appreciated.

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A rep response on the issue would be nice, but then again we are discussing based on a translated interview summary, can't know for sure how it was worded in the original text or in what context. That being said, i certainly hope the the 3x a week is about the rolling feature and not the dungeon lockout, if it is dungeon lockout then that means they have not upgraded for their current system of forced random system side lottery where players who do not want something end up with items or items go to the floor since player alrdy has it.

I really hate the forced random lottery the current primal fights have, it sucks getting items u don't want and can't pass

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Originally Posted by Masamune1004

Yeah, 200 runs without a drop is much better than 3 guaranteed drops per week.

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Getting everything capped out and handed to you in under a week definitely sounds better for the longevity of the game rather than simply adding a token system to the current system. Guess we'll see how fast people complain about blowing through all of the games content.

Perhaps if they adjust the stats on dropped gear and make them convertable/meldable, people will be blowing them up for materia and in double+ attempts to compensate for excess that could occur. But that most likely wont happen. I don't think it will be so bad tho. Longer dungeon (and likely funner), longer lockout (possibly).