Better Materia System

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Originally Posted by Meta

I had a somewhat similar system in mind, but the like others have stated, Materia needs to remain as an effective gear and gilsink, and making a materia-melding class diminishes the value of the original crafting classes.

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I was similar to this originally, and I do approve of it.

I only thought having a crafter to make the materia would add an additional cost to the materia while also removing even more RNG (replacing a bit of the gilsink that would be missing from lowering double meld+ prices). I feel it fits in well because of goobuex looks like he is crafting that stuff.

Im still curious why people think my idea takes gil out of the system from other crafters. It only removes it from the random melding - like yours is still maintains the use of gear spirit binding.

Edit: Want to add that this system still has a bit of materia overflow - another thing i wanted to solve with my system - making materia more expensive and rare (though indeed you accounted this for at least the more expensive materia).

You people realize that anytime you remove randomness in one place, SE will / you have to

1) add more randomness somewhere else (e.g. rare drops)
2) Make the process require more time and effort.

If neither of these things are done, melding becomes too easy, requires no effort or time, and the value of everything will crash.

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increase gear-to-materia conversion rates by incentivizing melding of lower tier materia onto gea

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There's already incentive: It's cheaper. I used lower tier materia until I was able to afford better ones.

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Right now materia isnt even that expensive - its just the double melded+ gear that is wild (10+ million).

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You and I obviously have very different ideas as to what constittutes expensive. Well-melded useful weapons cost tens of millions, and that's just with 2-3 materia. If people tried and could afford to try to go for 3-5 melds the prices of those would be astronomical. The only reason you don't see it is because people don't do it (becuase its too expensive to attempt)
I rarely have more than 1-2 million on me at a time. I can't drop 10 mil here, 5 mil there, 20 mill here like you can apparently.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

You people realize that anytime you remove randomness in one place, SE will / you have to

1) add more randomness somewhere else (e.g. rare drops)
2) Make the process require more time and effort.

If neither of these things are done, melding becomes too easy, requires no effort or time, and the value of everything will crash.

There's already incentive: It's cheaper. I used lower tier materia until I was able to afford better ones.

You and I obviously have very different ideas as to what constittutes expensive. Well-melded useful weapons cost tens of millions, and that's just with 2-3 materia. If people tried and could afford to try to go for 3-5 melds the prices of those would be astronomical. The only reason you don't see it is because people don't do it (becuase its too expensive to attempt)
I rarely have more than 1-2 million on me at a time. I can't drop 10 mil here, 5 mil there, 20 mill here like you can apparently.

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I agree with this post, and I am taking out 1)* but adding in a lot more 2).

* gathering and crafters are needed for some of the ingredients a materia master would use - so not all RNG is out but the 5% melds to destroy or make a weapon would be gone.

I usually have around ~4 mil. and like you its crazy to see 10 mil weapons. What I would like to see is 1 or 2 mil materia and a mil or so sword. That way you can buy your sword at a combined price of 5 mil or slowly add in guaranteed 1 mil materia as you make the money. I'm not try to destroy an economy just make it consistent and easy* for us less then 20 hours a week players (consistent prices, not easy prices but prices you can count on - the random % on weapons makes all the double + meld items go for extremely varying amounts).

*Because the only reason why the weapon costed 10 mil in the first place is because of the %, thats why I said the market shouldnt of existed in the first place.

One idea I would like to see implemented in the current materia system is to add a way to spiritbond certain equipments so you always get the materia you want, and the way I see it the solution would be simple - equipments melded with materia, when converted, will always produce materia that's equal or better than the one originally melded.

(ie: A Lightning Brand with +5 INT materia attached, when converted into materia, will turn into a +7 INT materia)

This way it'll provide a market for tier I or II materia, and provide a far bigger supply of materia which people want since people can just keep on upgrading the ones they need. If one can't afford expensive materia, then they can simply work their way up from the bottom with weaker materias and eventually collect more powerful materia through this upgrade method.

The only problem (?) I'll see happening with this, of course, is that it will probably drive prices of materia down, and hence hamper a method of income many battle-classes and crafters have.

Frankly, the randomness of melded gear blowing up doesn't bother me as much as the utter randomness of materias we get from converted gear.

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Originally Posted by Stanislaw

Frankly, the randomness of melded gear blowing up doesn't bother me as much as the utter randomness of materias we get from converted gear.

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You must have a sexy source of gil my friend lol (or not care too much getting past double melded gear)

The gear blowing up is what drives me and the prices nuts. And Yes your idea would drive the materia prices down - probably half or so divided by the price of tier 2.5 for normal materia and for the rare materia more like 70% (because the current system wont handle less RNG ). However I still like your idea over the current system.

My system attempts to keep the general economy stable while denying the RNG system (but has to be more complicated because it does such a thing).

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What I would like to see is 1 or 2 mil materia and a mil or so sword.

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So you'd like the weapon to be worth less than the materia that was used to make it. Makes a lot of sense....

I only hate RNG when RNG = shitty item drop rates. As long as there's an adequate supply such that I can try again if I have the time and gil, I don't mind blowing up weapons and such as I try to make the perfect one.

Shitty drop rates is what applies to the materia conversion- any one piece of gear can convert into like 10 different materia, and different grades, and different qualities within each grade. making things more specific would make the process a lot less frustrating:

Convert items of a certain color (e.g. zicron rings, wristlets) for a certain kind of materia (e.g. intelligence materia). This narrows things down a lot, and you don't have a million orange materia that nobody can sell because like 2 people in the entirety of the game might want them.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

So you'd like the weapon to be worth less than the materia that was used to make it. Makes a lot of sense....

I only hate RNG when RNG = shitty item drop rates. As long as there's an adequate supply such that I can try again if I have the time and gil, I don't mind blowing up weapons and such as I try to make the perfect one.

Shitty drop rates is what applies to the materia conversion- any one piece of gear can convert into like 10 different materia, and different grades, and different qualities within each grade. making things more specific would make the process a lot less frustrating:

Convert items of a certain color (e.g. zicron rings, wristlets) for a certain kind of materia (e.g. intelligence materia). This narrows things down a lot, and you don't have a million orange materia that nobody can sell because like 2 people in the entirety of the game might want them.

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Actually it does make a lot of sense. You can keep your materia and it wont break.

Although if you have a really special weapon then of course it may cost more. But usually people dont meld to special weapons (maybe they will in this system) - so maybe the weapon will cost similar to materia. But still materia should be awesome its rare and powerful concentrated mako (or spirit power) from the (your) earth (body)... and yet we are treating it like its copper.

Yeah you can make obtaining materia even more specific but then you are even more devaluing materia making it even shittier to look at. Materia is so uncool that way..

And if you make materia cheaper then its cheaper to just sit there and attempt a double meld. So basically you are saying as a gameplay device sit and fail melds until it works. Why ? Whats the point to sit and fail melds, make random dissapointment, and ruin the materia makert, when you can better balance everything else.

The current system is not fixable* - it allows for unbalanced unfair (RNG) creations.
*its patchable but you still have the problem that needs to be fixed later (unbalanced, unfair)

Stop gifting the RNG lucky people and make it take work - make it cool at the same time.

Woah dude! I got a tier 4 giants strength! not... haha.. mind 4 again.. aww man im going to shoot myself

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Actually it does make a lot of sense. You can keep your materia and it wont break.

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I don't know of a planet where it makes sense to devalue your own stuff.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I don't know of a planet where it makes sense to devalue your own stuff.

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Where in the world did i say devalue your stuff? I get the feeling you are here to just argue and not improve anything at all.

Materia would cost a lot because you can keep it and move it around, it has to cost a lot as it has a lot of power. It would also cost a lot to make.

Just because materia costs more doesnt devalue the weapon. The weapon always costed the same amount.
You are being illogical now ;/.

Just wanna add
there seems to be a lot of emphasis on "me" "my" and "mine" in this topic

seriously TC, seriously

kay, back to work now