Evolved mode has zero failure states

That is one of my main worry as well regarding evolved.

Learning to work around failure states and friction points is one of the main things that keep me invested in XIV's battle content and Evolved seem to be severely lacking. Consolidating the combos to one button might seem like just QoL because of how simple hitting 1-2-3 is, but in the heat of a fight, I've had moments where I fatfinger the wrong button and break my combo. So just that is already removing *some* failure state and so far, Evolved doesn't really add other failure states to replace that.

Heck, on RDM, there are moments where it can be worth it to just do 2-2-2 if the fight is about to end and you're sitting at 45/45, just so you can access your powerful finishers at the cost of your melee's combo potency.

People mention making rotation this simple means they can make the fights harder, but there are multiple problems with making the fights carry all the challenge:

1. Every battle pre-Evercold will feel dreadfully boring
2. When I'm on week 8 of reclearing a savage fight, the main thing that keeps me invested is improving my rotation, since the novelty of the fight has long gone. If all jobs become "spam the 1 button", those reclears will become real boring, real fast.

Why are we pretending that Sky High is anything but flavor?

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Originally Posted by Moqi

Why are we pretending that Sky High is anything but flavor?

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My thoughts exactly. We just finally have jobs that incorporate key identity elements that have been missing for almost a decade or so.

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Originally Posted by 0blivion

I'd rather have an interesting fight with a fun-but-low-skill-floor rotation than a mediocre fight with 2min hell.

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I am not sure what you envision when you say an interesting fight. I can see it if each job has a unique "thing" that it, and only it, can do in the fight, but if all rotations are easy to pick up and stuff like Sky High is just for flavor, then how are the fights going to hold our attention, especially on reclears?

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Originally Posted by 0blivion

I'm going to be honest, I'd rather not sit in PF replacing DPS for several hours til I find one that uses their raid buffs at the right time.

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Assuming the overall difficulty remains similar, whatever change they made to make up for not having to align raid buffs would just shift the reason you need to replace players, not reduce the amount of replacing needed. The frustration would remain the same, it would just be coming from a different source. It sounds like you may be the kind of player they are creating the new in between difficulty for.

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Originally Posted by Valence

It doesn't have to be punishing, but it has to be rewarding.

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I agree with you that having areas where you can misstep are important. The problem is that failure states are, by definition, punishing. That isn't to say we shouldn't have them, just that they will always feel like a punishment, even in casual content where those mistakes won't matter. Failure points have to be created with that in mind.

do we know if the dragoon jump can be used whenever or if we'll come to a point in the rotation where that skill has to be used for max damage?

maybe its just a fancy uptime tool for the more simple mechanics

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Originally Posted by Asari5

do we know if the dragoon jump can be used whenever or if we'll come to a point in the rotation where that skill has to be used for max damage?

maybe its just a fancy uptime tool for the more simple mechanics

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From what I gathered from the demo, you can hold the proc for a bit, probably 30s like most 'X Ready' buffs

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Originally Posted by Starrya

Assuming the overall difficulty remains similar, whatever change they made to make up for not having to align raid buffs would just shift the reason you need to replace players, not reduce the amount of replacing needed. The frustration would remain the same, it would just be coming from a different source. It sounds like you may be the kind of player they are creating the new in between difficulty for.

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That's sort of fair? My impression was that bad players in PF don't align their raid buffs right because the game in no way communicates the relevance of that - considering how intuitive PvP jobs, as well as the shown Evolve jobs are, I somewhat hope that will have the effect of incentivizing the average player to play better.

I will agree the new difficulty is indeed very beneficial to me. I retired from raiding over watching other people's static drama as well as experiencing party finder, and I will take any changes that make casual-but-not-quite-braindead content more fun. My ideal difficulty is probably the Chaotic and Forked Tower, but those have an overly strong human error potential.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

Why are we pretending that Sky High is anything but flavor?

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Can't wait for later when evercold is released of how Japan is using Dragoon as an off-tank that can just soak a tank buster with Sky High.

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Originally Posted by Bru_Tus

I think Sky High is a good start but holy if that's the ONLY thing Dragoon has going for it things are not looking good.

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This concerns me as well honestly. And something has felt missing with Paladin. The Atonement combo and Confiteor. It's just gonna feel comparatively dull. What has made Paladin so good for a long time has been its variety of things to press over 60s and it looks like they're truncating a bunch of it so that it's more like a barebones 40s rotation.

I don't know that a counter attack is quite enough appeal to lose what I currently find fun about it, especially when it seems there's nothing remotely challenging about achieving it.

In a similar way it feels like DRG will lose a lot of weaving and that's what I currently enjoy about it. It has positionals but it seems like they could probably all get nullified and I prefer the weaving part of it. I do like Elusive Jump but that also isn't enough and on that note they should bring back Spineshatter.

I currently play Paladin in PvP and even that feels more fun than what we are going to get with Evolved Paladin. I don't quite know how they got the same job and a similar task but ripped some of its attacks away for 8.0 and call it "Evolved".

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Originally Posted by Asari5

maybe its just a fancy uptime tool for the more simple mechanics

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In most cases it will just be a fancy uptime tool...if even that. Because I doubt that damage downs for doing mechanics wrong is going away, even if you have 90% DR.