Evolved BRD ?

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Originally Posted by Carighan

So you missed the part where new songs add either runspeed, regen or shield and hence you want to use them at specific times (not even end-to-end, hence the shared 20s CD with charges). You want to pool resource and time GCDs so you got the correct reactionary support ability up at the right time for the right boss ability.

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No, I didn't miss that part in the slightest, it just means such a miniscule amount to the actual overarching gameplay it isn't worth mentioning. The game revolves around killing things as fast as possible, nothing will change in 8.0 to warrant forcing BRD to use specific or even SAVE THEM for mechanics at a DPS loss, because the fights have to be beatable with every other phys ranged as well, and if they are planning on giving the same 3 buffs to each one that is another problem in of itself. There is no "pooling resources" if you are overcapping songs you are losing damage, and yet again, damage is the only thing that matters in this game.

They very clearly showed how you got a ton of leeway in how to pool, rotate or cram your songs to fit optimizing the support mechanics without losing out on damage. Could it still end up being problematic? Sure.

But right now song-play is utterly strict. The timing has to fit. The new ones have a lot of leeway, which is a marked improvement, and in fact is what first enables utilizing them for secondary effects (the current +damage buffs have no such contingency) in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Carighan

They very clearly showed how you got a ton of leeway in how to pool, rotate or cram your songs to fit optimizing the support mechanics without losing out on damage. Could it still end up being problematic? Sure.

But right now song-play is utterly strict. The timing has to fit. The new ones have a lot of leeway, which is a marked improvement, and in fact is what first enables utilizing them for secondary effects (the current +damage buffs have no such contingency) in the first place.

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There is not "a ton" of leeway though, certainly less than before overall. The current Reborn song play is pretty horrible in my opinion and I very much welcome the general change of making the songs more freely selectable. However, at the same time they are restricting it right away again the same way as it is in Summoner as I realized this morning, by forcing you to play all three songs in a row eventually to unlock Radiant Finale. If you would have to play three songs in total for this, you would indeed have more freedom and situational agency as a player, but the leeway you get now is tiny. Like, speed boost + AOE for a song sounds perfect for dungeon runs. It's basically AOEs plus a battle-peloton for fighting mobs, great! But the logical conclusion would be spamming this song until the mob is dead - which you can't, unless you want to miss out on Radiant Finale and whatever is attached to it. It's even worse than Summoner and current bard in that regard because Summoners are still able to play the big thing, no matter if they used their legos beforehand or not. That is gone in Evolved Bard. It's opposing to what they are trying to achieve, a more freeform song experience.

For reference, I mained Summoner since ShB, I actually liked the new system until they just duplicated the existing rotation for DT and showed they don't know what to do with it. I still think it's a solid foundation for the job to expand on though, it's not like I'm all gloom and doom and "oh no they ruined my main". And yet playing an Unreal with it felt incredibly strict compared to e.g. bard. There are some instances where it's important to time your Ifrit right, so you aren't stuck in slow casts when you're supposed to be moving. (Looking at you, Honey B. Lovely on normal level!) But in most fights I played, this is pretty irrelevant if I summon Ifrit or Garuda first, and over all it's just minor adjustments. I have to play all three primals or I am missing out on DPS because my alternative is spamming regular ruin or nothing until the big Demi primal is up, because I can't select one summon twice. And what I play when they are summoned is pretty strict as well, the only difference being if I do the AOEs or single target attacks. (Which is already more choice than what we have with Evolved Bard despite current Summoner being a Reborn version.)

Now, playing all songs once is a thing we already had prior to this, and I can imagine they didn't change it so we keep having something familiar or so. However, by mixing this with that new system they are actively contradicting their premise of making it more freeform.

In the current "old" version of Bard, the job isn't freeform because the cooldown for the songs, having to play all three and the upkeep of the DoTs lock you in. However, everything else pretty much is due to utilizing procs and a variety of oGCDs for single target and skills with and without stacks.

In the Evolved version of Bard, as I understood it, you can choose your songs slightly more freely and don't have to keep DoTs up, but everything else is super strict now with every arrow skill being part of a strict combo, Radiant Finale making your choice of songs pointless because you still need all three, and having no procs you can utilize for some extra DPS or whatever else might be of help.

I am not saying all of FF14 would be doomed now and every other job is going to be horrible, and we should all go back to two minute meta rotation. (Good riddance, for all the reasons they said in the panel!) Some of the things I saw e.g. with Paladin was stuff I actually liked and was hoping to see in the evolved Bard job. However, I do have issues with Bard specifically because this goes against both the current gameplay flair and their supposed goal of making it more freeform and situational as well. The general approach has potential but that current iteration fo Evolved is not using this potential at all. And that's a damn shame. It could be something truly exciting, that's why I'm posting here as well and am making suggestions for how to make it better after all (see page 3). And I sincerely hope they're going to read the feedback in this thread and take it into account before releasing 8.0.

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Originally Posted by Carighan

So you missed the part where new songs add either runspeed, regen or shield and hence you want to use them at specific times (not even end-to-end, hence the shared 20s CD with charges). You want to pool resource and time GCDs so you got the correct reactionary support ability up at the right time for the right boss ability.

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Those effects are frankly totally interchangeable. Run speed perhaps less so, but it doesn't matter. It's fake choice with the illusion of choice. It's exactly like SMN legos, except SMN has a bit more cast times to consider about, which is saying a lot... In fine it doesn't matter at all what order you choose because it has zero consequence to anything, and that's the eternal problem of rphys.

For all intents and purposes, and as much as I appreciate the idea of evolved, I do not understand how this generic homogenization is actually helping evolved jobs get "more individuality". Making the job even close to SMN and the loss of rng procs? Really?

I also frankly seriously question the idea to tie party support effects to personal dps mechanical sequences. That's just plain weird, i'm saying this as a pvp aficionado that's seen a LOT of effect combinations.

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Originally Posted by Carighan

Yeah although I will say I feel all current proc-involving classes (Bard, Dancer, Red Mage and to a minor degree Monk and Reaper) have kinda the "wrong" type of proc? As they provide no meaningful gameplay impact, their designs have been "flattened" so to speak. To ensure they cannot ever mess with overall procession of the rotation and hence cannot ever mess with the 120s meta.

Of course, I fully agree that this should then if anything imply that now that the 120s meta is FINALLY kicking the bucket, now would be the time to actually have meaningful procs meaningfully alternating gameplay flow and rotational timings and flow again. Now is the chance! And they're not doing that. I don't mind losing the current procs at all. Like I said, I feel they already provide more or less exactly zero value. But I am sad we're not getting valuable procs instead.

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Yeah sure, let's remove it instead of improving it :rolleyes:

They Summoner'd my Bard and people are cheering for it.

I wish the monkey's paw's curl upon them when the next previews hit.

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Originally Posted by Carighan

So you missed the part where new songs add either runspeed, regen or shield and hence you want to use them at specific times (not even end-to-end, hence the shared 20s CD with charges). You want to pool resource and time GCDs so you got the correct reactionary support ability up at the right time for the right boss ability.

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It only raises one question for me, does it not diminish healer value?
Healers are already complaining a) no dps rotation b) not enough to heal.
We absolutely do not know if tanks will stay selfsustainable, but I find it difficult to be an healing support - for now.

I'm glad the BRD is no longer a buff bot, and is now responsible for dealing its own damage while still keeping support skills. Disappointed evolved mode doesn't have the Esuna anymore.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...578&height=569
(I didn't made it)

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Originally Posted by mallleable

I'm glad the BRD is no longer a buff bot, and is now responsible for dealing its own damage while still keeping support skills. Disappointed evolved mode doesn't have the Esuna anymore.

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This is the correct way of viewing things imo.

On a side note: it seems like the people here losing their minds and complaining about the Evolved mode *looking* too simple, are forgetting they have the option to stick with Reborn Mode.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

It only raises one question for me, does it not diminish healer value?
Healers are already complaining a) no dps rotation b) not enough to heal.

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The second part is tricky. It will always be an issue, it's inherently not solvable due to class design, unless the FF14 devs decide to do one of two things:

* Massively increase the non-plannable amount of damage intake in all forms of gameplay. Untelegraphed line AoEs, random bolts firing into the group, random circular explosions on every autoattack, 360° cleaves constantly, etc.
* Do the GW2 and flat out remove roles like tank or healer or so, and just make everyone "damage and xyz", for group-composition purposes, too.