Thief & Ninja ideas!

I definitely hope they give Thief SATA again. Hopefully give them some other hate control moves and make stealing more worthwhile.

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Originally Posted by Maldalewyn

Our builds are pretty similar Amsai, but yours seems more varied with the debuffs... okay A LOT more varied. lol

Yea, now you see what I mean. Its not like we copied eachother, but the direction we took it is ridiculously similar ^.^



Utsusemi was on NIN though... it's a job... no one else can use it.

Beside that, I also added it REDUCES enmity and only gave 2 shadows with 30 sec cool down. I don't think that's going to happen, you're just having flashbacks to FFXI.

Like I said earlier, as a job ability, keeping it exclusive, its only possible purpose is to serve the THF/NIN in survival either alone, or against bosses. There would be NO TIERS of Utsusemi at all, this isn't FFXI, it's FFXIV, and I'm pretty sure the game is already intend on keeping spell tiers a thing of the past. That means no Utsusemi: Ichi and Ni, just 2 shadows with reduced enmity every 30 seconds. It could help the thief tank while solo, but there is no way a tank could keep enmity up if he was dependent on shadows that cost him MP on an already limited MP pool.

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I think Utsusemi could work for ninja too. The only reason I didnt include it in my build is because I knew people would have issues with it. So I decided not to make it an issue by avoiding it lol. Too many people see it and instantly think "oh nooooes, everyone will have to /nin for shadows arrggghh, and Ninja will tank when its a rogue class, ahhhhhh the sky is falling".

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Originally Posted by TomCarroll

I like seeing creative threads like this, but I think that utsusemi would break tanking in this game and cause a lot of unnecessary balance issues. This is assuming there'll be balance come 2.0...

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I'm not sure how it would do that considering enemies attack in groups rather than being able to single pull. Your shadows would go down really fast. You also need to consider what appropriate recast and casting times would be.

I honestly don't see anything wrong with evasion tanking but I don't want that to be ninja's primary objective.

WOW that' a lot of action ideas. I've been told that a high gathering/perception is good for getting more items. Maybe if they make THF, they could give it a really good gathering stat. Of course, that could just be a rumor since I never looked into it.

I'd love to see dual-wielding as well, but not in the way PGL does dual-fists. Should be 1 sword in main hand and 1 sword in off hand.

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Originally Posted by Yrusama

WOW that' a lot of action ideas. I've been told that a high gathering/perception is good for getting more items. Maybe if they make THF, they could give it a really good gathering stat. Of course, that could just be a rumor since I never looked into it.

I'd love to see dual-wielding as well, but not in the way PGL does dual-fists. Should be 1 sword in main hand and 1 sword in off hand.

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That would be too imbalanced since both weapons could potentially be melded.
Better to avoid the imbalance and just make the daggers come as a set.

I love your setup Maldalewyn. I think some of the abilities could use some longer CDs though to avoid "OPness." I think all of NIN's abilities could use at least :30s cd, with Utsusemi being 1min. Rogue's Rancor > 5min, Time Bomb > maybe 1:30 or 2min? I love Time Bomb but I think it should deal massive(?) damage not death to target. It would be THF/NINs only heavily damaging ability, a way to get massive amounts of spike hate to dump onto someone else as well as be a useful crowd control tool.

It's my understanding that the other WS don't do great damage but that their damage comes from DOT, correct? My only concern with this is that DOTs don't generate a lot of hate, and to transfer/control hate, you have to have some of it. All of your abilities dump hate amazingly, but you don't have any abilities that really grab hate to be dumped (except maybe Sneak Attack?). Maybe change Enhanced Sneak Attack Trait to increase enmity generated by successful sneak attack crits.

My only other suggestion would be to swap TP values of Debilitating Cut and Blood Booze. DC-1k. BB-250

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Originally Posted by Sounsyy

I love your setup Maldalewyn. I think some of the abilities could use some longer CDs though to avoid "OPness." I think all of NIN's abilities could use at least :30s cd, with Utsusemi being 1min. Rogue's Rancor > 5min, Time Bomb > maybe 1:30 or 2min? I love Time Bomb but I think it should deal massive(?) damage not death to target. It would be THF/NINs only heavily damaging ability, a way to get massive amounts of spike hate to dump onto someone else as well as be a useful crowd control tool.

It's my understanding that the other WS don't do great damage but that their damage comes from DOT, correct? My only concern with this is that DOTs don't generate a lot of hate, and to transfer/control hate, you have to have some of it. All of your abilities dump hate amazingly, but you don't have any abilities that really grab hate to be dumped (except maybe Sneak Attack?). Maybe change Enhanced Sneak Attack Trait to increase enmity generated by successful sneak attack crits.

My only other suggestion would be to swap TP values of Debilitating Cut and Blood Booze. DC-1k. BB-250

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I think you got Time Bomb confused a bit. It doesn't deal death, but it activates upon death. Basically you place it on a monster, then proceed to kill him. Once the monster dies he blows up and damages all the surviving allies present and gives them a burn DOT. The idea behind it was to deal AOE damage (which the class severaly lacks) without generating enmity since no one is causing the damage, only the bomb is.

The Bleed Weapon skill combo is low damage and does depend on DOT but the other combo ending in Falconer's Dive is big spike damage. Falconer's Dive combo is the main source of enmity generation that could be dumped onto someone else. A SATA Falconer Dive also gives a 100% chance to double the damage you deal, as well as make it a critical, that's HUGE so it'd generate a ton of enmity.

But ya, you're right about the cooldowns, I did make them too short. I was trying to make the class fast paced, but I guess that'd be too OP.

Oh, it's also worth noting that Thousand Cuts can be criticaled as well with Sneak Attack, making each hit critical for 2 damage instead of 1, with a potential for 2K damage. Stack that with Hawk's Eye if it's available and you could have some real power there every 5 minutes.

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But ya, you're right about the cooldowns, I did make them too short. I was trying to make the class fast paced, but I guess that'd be too OP.

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30s is still really quick. Besides being OP, there were two reasons I wanted to suggest raising CD times. 1) you don't really need a spell that only blinds or only paralyzes to be 10s. The effect will probably last 10-15s as it is. No point in being able to spam it if you won't actually ever need to spam it. I could understand 10s if it generated hate or something but it doesn't. 2) if all your CD timers are really short (ie 10s) you physically have no time to go through all your rotations and keep everything/most everything on cooldown. Coupled with positioning, you'd never get anything done.