Infrequent windows for fish are good, Purse of Riches is too much

The way I see it, fishing is somewhat unique content for two reasons. First, it is not schedule-agnostic: log progress can't be made whenever you want, and the schedule is determined by the game, not the player. This is fairly different from most of the other time-consuming achievements and such in the game, which can at least be worked on little by little whenever a player wishes. Second, even if you do everything right, you are not guaranteed the fish: this sets it apart from something like hunts, where even if a mark doesn't spawn for a long period of time, if you show up when it does spawn, you know for certain that you will get kill credit for it.

To be absolutely clear, I enjoy this about fishing and I'm glad it is like this. However, that also means its balance isn't really comparable to other content in the game: a 20 day average wait might be fine for hunts, but it is dramatically less so for fishing, especially with a fish that appears to be moderately uncommon even when it is available. I know quite a few people, myself included, that are going on 3-4 full windows with no catch.

Purse of Riches is unavailable for an average of 20 real-life days at a time. Assuming the average player spends 2/3 of their time at work, sleeping, eating, or otherwise doing anything that is not playing the game, that means most people only get one attempt every 2 months. This already feels bad, but it also averages multiple windows for a single catch, which makes it worse. For me, it crosses well over the line of healthy, fun friction into the territory of frustration and stress.

I've seen some people say that it's okay as long as it's just the one fish out of hundreds. The idea that one fish is widely-regarded as bad and upsets players for potentially months is fine because most people will only deal with it once is unsatisfying to me, which is why I'm so critical of this fish. To be specific about my perspective and the kind of player that I am: I intend to catch this fish multiples times regardless of what happens for data-collection purposes. I'm probably less emotionally invested in a first catch than most people. The availability of this fish is still rather disheartening for me. I understand that pushing variables and trying new things is fundamental in design, and that there is no precedent for a big fish being adjusted, but I do wish we could see some sort of response on this. I really, really love fishing in this game. I would like to love it even more!

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Originally Posted by BeansMcgee

I've seen some people say that it's okay as long as it's just the one fish out of hundreds. The idea that one fish is widely-regarded as bad and upsets players for potentially months is fine because most people will only deal with it once is unsatisfying to me, which is why I'm so critical of this fish.

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For me the benefit would be that we cover a spectrum. I would not want this to be the only fish with ridiculously insanely unlikely catching requirements, but also I would not want there to be a way to "entice" players to get this one (in particular).

So like:

• New category of fish, "Legendary fish", "Rumored fish", whatever.
• Do not count to 100% of the fishing log. In fact go >100% if you were to have enough.
• Only achievement is for catching any single one of them, there is 0 benefit to having multiple. This achievement gives no title, no mount, no nothing.
• Add 1 such fish per expansion, even retroactively. On average you can catch them ~4-5 times a year but the specific reasons might vary. Say one fish only exists during the opening day of a new extreme trial, another is based on RL weather at SQEX JP HQ, stuff like that. Really silly stuff, too.

It would entirely be for bragging rights. But ignoring such a hypothetical solution for a second I agree, they probably ought to change it a bit to also work at least on the reverse weather sequence, or make it independent of the daytime.

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Originally Posted by Ankhira

A lot of people I speak to don't go "Omg yay" they rather go "Omg finally it's over." I think RNG is fine in moderation, but when people say it took them years to get a single fish, that makes me feel like the system might be a little too much.

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From my perspective - a lot more people go "OMG Yay" rather than go "OMG finally it's over." Also, from what I (and others) have seen only maybe 2-3 instances of "it's taken me years to catch a fish" are actually true "it took me years to catch a fish" - a lot of the time it's a handful of windows over multiple years. This is why when I talk about how long it takes to catch a fish, I speak in windows, not timelines.

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Originally Posted by Ankhira

...And the real‑life fishing argument I keep seeing used doesn’t really convince me about why it's even needed in the first place. We’re catching giant fish in small puddles, prehistoric animals and sharks with a flimsy fishing rod. Realism has long gone out the window...

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The actual quote (because this likely started with me, since I took a FanFest quote and tied it to fishing) is "FFXIV is a fantasy game grounded in reality" - not implying that it's a realistic game, but it's a fantasy game with undertones of reality.

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Originally Posted by Ankhira

Maybe they could tweak Fish Eyes to cost less GP and last longer that way atleast some of the older fish are a little easier. But right now, I don't know. It seems very difficult for someone to want to start their fishing journey and see six expansions of rare fish

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Now this is actually a concern that I have as well, and Fish Eyes I think is a big key part of catch-up fish. Still, the average time it takes to catch all the fish (to date) hovers around a 3-4 months. It can take longer or shorter, but as more big fish are added, it's going to be a bigger and bigger thing to overcome. That said, Triple Triad, The Hunt (to a degree, sort of a weak example on my end) would also have similar issues.

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Originally Posted by Alfyn

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So I offer 3 suggestions:

1. Extend the duration of the window, 5 minutes is too short. If the window only appears once a month at least give us 20 minutes
2. Make the Purse of Riches exceedingly common during the window. I've attended 3 windows and haven't caught this fish. If the windows only appear for 5 minutes every month then the achievement of this fish is simply being able to attend it.
3. Add a second weather transition. This is basically just asking to make the fish appear more often. Clouds and Rain are the 2 most infrequent weather states in Tulliyolal, which is directly contributing to the rareness of this fish.

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I think the main issue that I have with some fish in general, Purse included, is that its not engaging with the toolset we have now in Dawntrail. Fish like Punuity Pain, Ttokatoa, Gigagiant Snakehead (just for Dawntrail, at least) are all far more interesting because of what we got with the Dawntrail expansion, than just Purse. I want fishers to have to use their skills more often than not, rather than just showing up and slapping, chumming, and luring.

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Originally Posted by BeansMcgee

I understand that pushing variables and trying new things is fundamental in design, and that there is no precedent for a big fish being adjusted,

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There is, actually (and technically with Legendary fish). Patch 4.0 iirc adjusted the bite rates of various HW legendaries, like Opabinia and Charibenet.

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Originally Posted by Carighan

It would entirely be for bragging rights.

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And lot of fishing really already is about bragging rights. It's a completely optional thing you (the player in general) decide to do on your own.

Legendary fish already are a category and I don't agree in that we really need a new one (and not one at least Purse would fit into with other fish 'fairly'), all just to add more achievements or to make it so people can get the already small rewards for them as is easier. This thread isn't about how to make getting fishing achievements easier. The main focus is discussing fish frequency and possible alternatives that people would like to see in terms of mechanic usage that could achieve the same impact as very infrequent windows.

If Purse could be strongly influenced by Lures, it would be so much more interesting. I would still hate the downtime and consider it too excessive, but if it was a fish that clearly rewarded you for knowing your kit, I’d at least have grudging respect for the experience of fishing for it. Like if it was a small-jawed bite, in this fishing hole that would mean it would only compete with one other bite of the same type. Slap that one, use Modest Lure, and potentially you can get a guaranteed bite proc that could only be Purse, or without the proc at least strongly skew the chance of getting that bite. That would at least be interesting to do, after waiting a month (or several months) for your next attempt.

I am firmly in the camp that downtimes for Purse of Riches are excessively long. I would even say if the set spawning conditions were made intentionally and not in error, it is actively hostile to players. I have seen multiple US-based fishers mentioning that they cannot even make an attempt for months because of already infrequent windows falling during working or sleeping hours. I am lucky in that I can afford to ruin my sleep to be up for a five minute window and am home more often than not. But most people with jobs or school do not have that luxury. If the main difficulty of a fish is just being able to attend the window to catch it, I believe that is not engaging game design. Fish with catch requirements more complicated than a simple "slap and chum", or that are avid biters but slip easily are more interesting (and fun, in my opinion) than a fish that is just never available to catch.

In addition to the infrequent windows, Purse of Riches is far from a guaranteed catch. I've been to four windows so far, including the discovery window, and have not had a single bite. Perhaps I have particularly bad luck in this instance, but from discussions elsewhere I know I am far from alone in this situation. Waiting up to several months to make an attempt then not even having a bite feels very bad. I know there are mixed opinions on if it feels worse to have a slip or no bites at all, but for me personally I would at least like a slip as a "sign of life" so to speak. A slip means I was close to my goal! It got away but I have incentive to try again! Zero bites just feels like I ruined my sleep for nothing. Compounded after multiple windows is enough to make some players give up entirely and direct their energy elsewhere.

While no player is "owed" or "deserves" to catch a fish, they should at least have the reasonable opportunity to try. I want fish that challenge me to engage with my fishing kit. I want a fish I can fight, not one that makes me unsub for three months because it is taking a long nap. If a fish can't be attempted even once in a subscription cycle, I consider that a failure of design.

I have caught every fish in the game except Purse. My three windows have been: no bite, slip, and slip. Getting a slip in the middle of the night is not fun. This is the first fish window I have found to be too excessively infrequent and where missing a window feels bad. Waiting so long for the next chance is not fun.

The Devs' new choice to elongate the chance of a player being able to go fishing for a fish is a trend that goes against YoshiP's statement (Nov 2025) that you will try to value peoples' time in the future. I call it a trend because I have seen it everywhere in DT for different types of content. Here are examples of where the Devs have made the active choice of making players wait longer:

- FT and Quantum require grinding consumable items to get in;
- the items used to get into FT and Quantum are used against other players to lower their chances of getting in or lowering the amount of rewards earned by other party members;
- they made the FT achievement 100 clears instead of the usual 10 which causes some players to avoid helping other new players prog because they want the achievement;
- players compete in the new Bunny Fate for only a chance at a Pot and the fate was set to a longer fixed 30-minute cycle requiring more waiting and hoping you get a Pot within the larger growing crowd;
- Cosmic Exploration is reliant on the randomness of your World's population density and affinity for Crafting/Gathering to determine when you can see later zones (I'm still waiting for the only sequential fishing missions on Oizys to become available while others already have access to them);
- the DCs are in such a state that one must often go to other DCs to be able to find PFs or active Roulettes, provided the DC is even accessible (some new players even have trouble completing MSQs if they do not understand Data Centre Travel);
- we were told Chaotic would be slightly easier and that there were not enough resources for a Normal version of FT so less-skilled players either had to sign up for Discords a week ahead of time, take a lot more time to prog, or they had to give up after realizing they could not get through prog;
- the most recent Savage was tuned for Week-One Raiders in a way that globally lowered everyone else's stats going into the raids relative to past raids.

I then looked for counter examples. The only very positive thing I could think of where the Devs went out of their way and comfort zone to help save players' time in order to make players' gameplay experiences more inviting and enjoyable was the added matchmaking and added checkpoints in the Pilgrim's Traverse Deep Dungeon. This is the only sliver of healthy and successful light and hope for the future I have seen in DT gameplay system decisions so far. I hear the Criterion Dungeon might have something similar.

The trend of making players wait longer is rampant. Hopefully the trend of valuing players' time takes root and grows strong. Most players have busy lives and have to wait to play their games. Please don't make them have to wait excessively to play content within the game itself. There are more fun ways to make fish harder to catch besides passively waiting longer and longer wait times.

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Originally Posted by Hastatus

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The other counterpoint is this is what players were asking for in Endwalker. If we can recall, a lot of the feedback around the variant dungeons and other bits and bobs that were added was "I could do it all in a week" - now we can't. That isn't to say "this is what we asked for" - but I can see why the FT achievement and bunny fate are the way they are. (I think the quantum thing is actually pretty cool, so going to disagree with you on that).

I don't think SE plans or wants to make it so that you NEED to spend 2-3 months doing a thing to get a thing, which is why all of what you pointed out are purely side pieces of content. Just like fishing, it's on the side and a 'if you want to engage with it you can, but if not that's fine. You don't miss any sort of progression." That's why fishing is the way it is - it's optional and you choose to engage with it. I keep bringing up the Heavensward Era fish - Bobgoblin Bass, Sea Butterfly, Charibenet, Flarefish, Second One - all as interesting ways of making fish engaging for longer, but not requiring infrequent windows. These are good fish.

Fish like SB or Chari feel rare, but they aren't terribly so if you look at the numbers. They are good because they are up often in smaller windows, and allow for skill expression to improve their uptime by maximizing intuition per window. And despite their somewhat common windows they can still take weeks to catch for the average fisher. That's good, engaging, fishing. Fish like Shin Snuffler or Esperance Carp could have been similar, but their intuitions and their windows don't allow for more than 1 int per window, that's not as great because the int just becomes prep time. If their ints were shorter OR their windows were longer - then we'd be looking at some great fish.

Options are there for sure, and I think going into 7.5 and especially 8.0, we're going to start to see things change for fishing.

That's a good point, a massive block of feedback about ShB and EW in general was "This is all done way too quick", which we now see the opposite of in fishes such as this have egregious fishing window restrictions or how grindy the paste for the combat relics is, nevermind what fishers suffer through on the exoplanets.

I do think overall though there are other ways to implement this sort of thing without introducing a window that's so infrequent it's egregious. Purse feels like an over-correction rather than proper implementation.

I don't mind waiting a bit on the fish if they're engaging like with Ruby Dragon or Ealad Skaan. Heck, one thing I'd really like to see is another instance of like the Warden where the fish is always up but its prerequisites for intuition aren't, so you have to try and utilize your skills to work around that. Fish Eyes especially becomes a bit of a fun gambling tool for that since it can help you get the one remaining fish you need for the int, but is the GP loss beforehand really worth it? Or is it better to just wait another half hour until the window opens again and hope you get the right mooch. Combo that with the lures and oh man you've got some fun potential there especially for a legendary.