I just want a FF11 modern game.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I spent a few hours trying to navigate out of the starting city. No matter what I did, the User Interface was so bad it made me appreciate FFXIV's in ways I never imagined I would. I'm sure it's fine for people who are used to it, but it's not for people who would rather get into a modern version of it.

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You literally turn around and it’s the big door behind you.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

You literally turn around and it’s the big door behind you.

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It was a lot further than that. But that was the problem anyway. Turning and moving was that hard because it was designed for a controller. I was moving in circles trying to move, for absolutely hours, so even if the exit was behind me I'd have still been stuck.

Bringing up the map was hard, and when I finally did, it didn't fade out like in FFXIV, meaning I had to memorize the map. This forced me to keep bringing it up repeatedly, which could only be done via the menu - I couldn't just press M like in FFXIV.

I could barely tell the difference between players and NPCs either, and if there is an MSQ, I'd have no clue about it because there are no quest icons. This instantly makes you think there's nothing to do in the game.

After several hours, when I'd exited the city, the terrain was so simple (a bowl) that it made me sick looking at it.

I expected a rough time due to it being an old game, and was prepared to go through the difficulty, but I did not think that difficulty would be simply moving 1 meter and bringing up the map. I thought it would be more things like the lack of quest icons and battles.

Oh, and get this: they had run out of copies of the trial version of the game. There were none left. I had to actually buy the full game instead, which was a waste of money.

It was just a completely awful experience compared to FFXIV, with not a shred of quality of life to make the new player experience even slightly tolerable in 2025.

This isn’t san d’oria because you’re definitely right at the exit there and it’s in the woods. This probably isn’t bastok because I’m fairly sure again that the exit is right behind you, although it does exit to a pretty bowl-shaped area. It might be windy since the exit is slightly further up the ramp, but it exits to plains/savannah.

I haven’t noticed any issues with the controls personally -just wasd for movement and arrow keys for camera like in 14. Having to start autoing to be considered in combat by the trusts is perhaps less obvious than it could be if you start on a mage.

The main story is started from talking to the gate guard, which is I think is mentioned in the orientation dialogue. Trading to npcs is a bit strange if you’re used to 14’s way of doing it but otherwise seems pretty natural.

If nothing else, I think playing 11 for a bit helps contextualise some of the design decisions 14 took. By the same stroke you can also discover /pcmd mostly works in 14. Obviously it would be second hand, but I believe mr happy 1227 has an (ongoing?) let’s play which might be good background noise if you want to see a bit of vanadiel without being swamped by unfamiliar systems.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

FFXI at 1440p (with super-sampling, so effectively running at 5120x2880) at 60 FPS in a busy area with a lot of players, with ReShade and some other things to improve graphics, sits at about 20% GPU load for me. In a lower resolution in windowed mode without any fancy graphics stuff, it's 1-3%.

I imagine it would run on integrated graphics at 1080p with no super-sampling. There's a 14 day free trial, so you could always download it and see.

Edit: Also, if you do decide to try the game out, when it comes to choosing a server, I'd highly recommend Bahamut. Asura is very highly populated but has a lot of problems with mercs and RMT. Bahamut is the 2nd most populated server and merc culture does not exist there. Odin is also very well populated but most of the playerbase there is JP. The other servers are very low population.

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then I have to try that out!

I wish. Maybe we’d get an actual Final Fantasy MMO and not FF-Flavoured WoW with 1% of the same effort put into it

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

It was a lot further than that. But that was the problem anyway. Turning and moving was that hard because it was designed for a controller. I was moving in circles trying to move, for absolutely hours, so even if the exit was behind me I'd have still been stuck.

Bringing up the map was hard, and when I finally did, it didn't fade out like in FFXIV, meaning I had to memorize the map. This forced me to keep bringing it up repeatedly, which could only be done via the menu - I couldn't just press M like in FFXIV.

I could barely tell the difference between players and NPCs either, and if there is an MSQ, I'd have no clue about it because there are no quest icons. This instantly makes you think there's nothing to do in the game.

After several hours, when I'd exited the city, the terrain was so simple (a bowl) that it made me sick looking at it..

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This....just....I mean....it really sounds like you came in with preconceived notions on how it is or how you thought it was and intentionally made your life hard because the controls are incredibly basic for anyone with even the slightest game knowledge.

Movement is simple, literally just wasd or 4862 on the numpad like nearly every other game out there. map is just alt-M or /map if you don't want to open the main menu and simply click on map. Sure it's not intuitive but I assume you didn't bother to look at keybinds like most ppl do starting a fresh in any game, which imo is purely player error. There is also a mini map addon. npc's use the same models as players, as do other mmos including ffxiv, but their names are green instead of white or have no name at all, also like ffxiv. The lack of quest icons is the only thing here I will concede on, but that also means you were talking to 0 npcs and didn't bother to do a simple google search because there are multiple websites that lay things out in detail. And sure you may grumble about having to look ta third party sites for information, but that is something ppl do in ffxiv too. Battle guides, ui guides, rotation guides, story guides, etc etc etc. The rest just feels like you were intentionally trying to find problems with it.

As for the bowl, I can only think you mean gustaberg, which is still much more lively than other game zones, including some in XIV. I mean when we got a raid that was just white boxes.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

the controls are incredibly basic for anyone with even the slightest game knowledge.

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No, they are not, otherwise I would not have struggled to move. As I said, they were designed for a controller. There was an option to make it work better for keyboard but it was still very difficult to use.

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Movement is simple, literally just wasd

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I think WASD might have been the problem. I think I might have ended up trying up/down/etc? I forget what I did to actually navigate but all I remember is it was extremely difficult.

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map is just alt-M

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Oh well I would have had no idea it required me to press Alt now would I? M is intuitive.

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I assume you didn't bother to look at keybinds

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I did but the menu was incredibly hard to use because, again, it was designed for controllers. Pressing ESC didn't do it the same way as in most games like FFXIV, because it was designed to work like the old single player FF games which were designed with a Playstation controller in mind.

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The rest just feels like you were intentionally trying to find problems with it.

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That's a common perspective of veteran players in MMOs that completely ignores and doesn't care about the experience of new players - that's exactly how MMOs dwindle in population. When the new player experience is dismissed and ignored by its veteran players and developers. This is why I am not rude to new players for not knowing things in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

I think you misunderstood what I was saying but I can see how that could be the case with the way I worded it. Of course content designed to be difficult is going to be difficult. My point was that OP is citing FFXI as the prime example of how to make a new hardcore MMO where every little thing is a huge pain in the ass, but ironically the game has long since sanded off most of those edges. Leveling is way easier, synthesis is easier, you can get around the world much easier, quests and fame requirements were made easier, maps are easier to get, XP loss on death was reduced, etc etc. As much as I enjoyed the game's brutality back in the day, a new MMO designed like that would absolutely be DOA.

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FFXI was never a super hardcore game. It just prioritised convenience less heavily, which is still the case compared to modern MMOs. I don't think you're considering why those changes were made.

Leveling was made "easier" (read: more convenient) because the overwhelming majority of the playerbase is at endgame, so there aren't hordes of people looking to party in the dunes anymore. The focus of the game is not the leveling experience anymore because the majority of the content now requires you to be at level cap.

Leveling synthesis was made easier because low level crafts have no value anymore. You could craft and sell things for money while leveling before. You can't really do that anymore.

You can buy leveling gear with sparks now because no one was selling low level gear on the AH.

Getting around was made easier because the world is bigger. And maps made easier to get because there are so many more maps to collect.

None of these changes were made specifically because the game was too "hard". The changes were made because the game grew in scope over the years, the playerbase aged (in terms of the percentage of the playerbase that was at endgame), and it became unenterable for new players.

Some things have changed, yes, but it's still very much still FFXI. There is still a huge amount of player power progression available. Items are still meaningful. And there are still plenty of long grinds. Want an Ergon weapon? Well, there's a 7 month long grind before you can even start one. Then you have the grind for the weapon itself after that.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Wildstar tried that but the MMO genre has just moved past that sort of system now. Those niche games aren't going to survive in the current MMO environment. So your choices are either play one of the current niche games still out there or adapt to the new style of MMOs.

And it isn't even like this is new. The genre started going this way with the people who left EverQuest and others of that time period for (at the time) less grueling options like EverQuest II and WoW.

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Wildstar did not fail because it was too "hardcore". It failed because it had a lot of issues in development including key members of staff leaving the company. When players started to leave due to content being developed too slowly, it was then made free to play and heavily over-monetised to compensate. Even more players left and then the game was abandoned by the developers.

Wildstar wasn't a particularly hardcore game. The content was very well received, the problem was corporate greed. IDK where this Wildstar narrative that people try to spin even comes from because it's flat-out fiction.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

snip.

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Yep, I have only been playing this game, on PC with KB/M for 20 years what do I know lol.

Still sounds very very much like you were intentional in making your life hard in FFXI, cause like I said, yes wasd is movement and again, didn't look at keybinds, which is something you should do in every game and how hard is 1 click to open a menu and arrow keys or mouse to navigate it in any way difficult? That is pretty standard. Menus navigate just fine on kb and is no more or less difficult than a majority of even modern games. And guess what, you can also assign your own key binds, just like in ffxiv. Having this level of difficulty can only be either from a brand new gamer or someone intertionally making their life difficult. Which is something I notice a looooot of ppl with a bias against ffxi, for whatever reason, consciously or not, do.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

yes wasd is movement and again, didn't look at keybinds, which is something you should do in every game and how hard is 1 click to open a menu and arrow keys or mouse to navigate it in any way difficult? That is pretty standard. Menus navigate just fine on kb

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