Is it reasonably possible to clear savage without Synced Burst windows?

I have been progging savage and Ultimates in PF since I started playing this game, 2 years ago, and there was not a single party that walled a fight because buffs were not aligned. What are you even saying at this point?

The fact that savage and ultimates can be regularly cleared in PF with zero voice communication shows that perfect buff alignment isn't absolutely necessary to clear fights.

Unless you somehow believe that 8 strangers that aren't communicating in an environment where anything can go wrong would somehow play perfectly every single run.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

I'm frankly not interested in clearing, just in fun progging

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See, that's why finding a static with the same goals as you is important. Some people don't do savage to clear; they do it for the fun times and laughter together. This can cause them simply to never try very hard and never actually clear third floors and beyond.

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PF just... how does that sound like fun to anyone.

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Sometimes you meet fun people in PF and end up in random, small PUG discords so you can play with them again. Never really know, but happened lots of times for me in PF that I found a really great party where we all clicked.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

If all of this has happened just to be able to make one phase of fights harder for the top 10% of the top 15% then that just tragically stupid.

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It kinda did. Another way to look at it is they are trying to artificially "raise" the performance of not-good players by making them "play well" without realizing it - by synchronizing buffs seamlessly. Either way, they constrained the job design over it like you said.

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I'm frankly irritated by the talk of 24 man savage, because I couldn't even get enough interest in criterion.

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I understand that. That type of savage is typically run via large discord servers that run events for the community. It's all very inviting really and they do callouts to make it really easy to beat it.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

I don't know much about high-end content. I have ZERO experience of anything beyond Unreal/Extreme. No Savage, no ultimate.

• Is it commonly possible for a party to clear Savage (I mean an entire tear) without burst windows synced among players/full-party?

By "commonly", I mean that "yes its possible, but they'd all have to be purple worthy rotations and uptime with one or at most two blues at the very worst, and their only failing would need to be synchronisation" I would NOT call 'commonly' possible. I would instead call that 'technically' but also irrelevant, as those players would be syncing anyway.

The reason I ask is that I suggest that:

1. the problem with jobs being too homogenous
2. the problems with PF prog being unsatisfactory
3. the obligation to use parsers

is that

• the fights are too tightly tuned on DPS and enrage checks
• leading to Synced Burst Windows being 'too' important
• leading to all the jobs needs to have the same burst window, and boring structure
• making non-voice/typical-PF prog a step too far challenging.

?
comments please

(that's the way it comes across to me, but I've no idea)

When it comes to Ultimate I don't think there is any point in complaining anything is too hard. Although if people find Savage too easy, I'm tempted to ask "has your 'entire' static tried playing without parsers for two or three years?"
And if you or anyone in your static has used parsers to improve your gameplay at all then your Ultimate doesn't count for much in terms of 'difficulty' for me.
It counts, for plenty of other things, but not bragging rights on 'supreme' skill. In my book 8 people clutch clearing with no exposure to parsers is worth more than a perfect parse World #1.
Yes, I know thats 98% of players and 100% of world firsts.
Parsers among what ever else they may be are always also tools of convenance, they are labour saving devices... 'they make stuff easier and quicker if not outright feasible'.
If clearing is too easy, clear it soonest or clear it fastest, without any aids. Pooring through chat logs, getting out calculators, and using duty recorder if its available.
I'm pretty confident I'm not going to be attractive to headhunters for statics. I also recognise this is so much an un-reality, its basically irrelevant.

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Pretty easily tbh, if you're talking ultimates, then no. you need perfect dps rotations
Abyssos was the only exception to this i think and they ended up nerfing it because of that

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

I have been progging savage and Ultimates in PF since I started playing this game, 2 years ago, and there was not a single party that walled a fight because buffs were not aligned. What are you even saying at this point?

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If you mean it towards what I said, the "wall it" is usually only seen in PF CLEAR groups, during prog runs you always try to go as far as you can, and only wall it if the death/missalignment makes it so the DPS check will cause a wipe regardless of effort (Such as in P8S)

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

I have been progging savage and Ultimates in PF since I started playing this game, 2 years ago, and there was not a single party that walled a fight because buffs were not aligned. What are you even saying at this point?

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Prog and clear party are two very different things. During prog, it's actually common for people to even downtool so they can focus on mechanic. Nobody really care about the DPS as long as you don't mess up and wipe. It's only when you start reliably seeing enrage and see you're 3-5-8% behind the enrage, and that's when people start squizzing for DPS. Passing all the mechanic =/= clearing a fight, and the optimization only come in the 2nd part.

Context is also important here. This tier is kinda of a burst for both being the first tier of an expansion and Picto (which is everyone and their brother or sister are playing) is doing hard carry, but usually you won't clear without a degree of optimization especially the last 2 floors. Also, just saying you're progging in PF doesn't give much context, are we talking about about week 1 and week 2 here or just PF whenever? For example, the Tree boss (P7S) were a hardwall for PF in the first couple weeks, you absolutely need a high degree of optimization to meet the DPS check. I had a few dozen 1->5% enrange in the first 2 weeks of that fight, and a lot of them happened even when nobody died during the run.

About ultimate ... are you talking about progging them on patch ... or old one? Because even though they don't get unsynch, the old Ultimate still get powercreep by new gears. DSR and Omega certainly did have a few check when they were release.

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Originally Posted by Raraka

If you mean it towards what I said, the "wall it" is usually only seen in PF CLEAR groups, during prog runs you always try to go as far as you can, and only wall it if the death/missalignment makes it so the DPS check will cause a wipe regardless of effort (Such as in P8S)

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The only times re-clears/clear parties wipe if somebody dies is:
1. You are less likely to skip an annoying end mechanic (for example sunrise in m4s)
2. They are logging the fight and aim for a 95-100% score.

Otherwise, nobody gives a shit, also this is more often than not communicated and those parties that do wall if people die are parties that already have BiS or close to it 727+.


Anyway, this is not the norm and unless you force a specific ilvl walling due to misalignment is not even a thing.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

The only times re-clears/clear parties wipe if somebody dies is:
1. You are less likely to skip an annoying end mechanic (for example sunrise in m4s)
2. They are logging the fight and aim for a 95-100% score.

Otherwise, nobody gives a shit, also this is more often than not communicated and those parties that do wall if people die are parties that already have BiS or close to it 727+.


Anyway, this is not the norm and unless you force a specific ilvl walling due to misalignment is not even a thing.

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If it helps as context, most of my experience with this was during early weeks Abyssos and early Anabaseios, as I joined a static to finish the tier and continue into Ana. Then in DT I stopped doing savage entirely because of job design

As iLvl gets pushed further from min iLvl I do agree with what you say, and parties will just carry on when pulls are sketchy as the clear will usually still happen. My apologies if my earlier comment was a bit skewed because of my perception ^^'

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Originally Posted by Raraka

If it helps as context, most of my experience with this was during early weeks Abyssos and early Anabaseios, as I joined a static to finish the tier and continue into Ana. Then in DT I stopped doing savage entirely because of job design

As iLvl gets pushed further from min iLvl I do agree with what you say, and parties will just carry on when pulls are sketchy as the clear will usually still happen. My apologies if my earlier comment was a bit skewed because of my perception ^^'

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I also started during Abyssos and that tier kicked me into the dirt. It was filled with body checks, left and right. You had to wall, because you were gonna die next mechanic anyway (p5s towers after devour for example). Abyssos was rough but I found Anabessios really easy.

Cleared p9s after 3 hours of progging and limit cut was the only mechanic that you needed to know while I struggled so much in p5s. Those towers + squall spreads still haunt me to this day..LOL.

It's a shame you gave up on Savage and did not find a job you liked enough, but it's fair. Personal free time should be used on things that you highly enjoy :).

What a topic ...

Step 1: Make a party consisting of your personal pick for 2 tanks, white mage, sage, black mage, machinist, samurai and viper
Step 2: Clear the whole savage tier with this party
Step 3: Congratulations, you have cleared the whole savage tier without party buffs, which is the main reason for synced burst. Since there are no party buffs, syncing burst windows is more of an aesthetic choice.