DRK needs more self-sustain in dungeons

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Originally Posted by Supersomething

What if no tanks had sustain and had to rely on healers to not die?

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Then you'd need to create other design elements to make them more distinct defensively, as they would just be near carbon copies without the variation of sustains used to define them more.

Sustain is fine for tanks to exist, it's only a problem when it starts invalidating the existence of another role. Stormblood Warrior for example had strong access to healing but at cost of damage, and even then you usually still wanted a healer to help you out.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Then you'd need to create other design elements to make them more distinct defensively, as they would just be near carbon copies without the variation of sustains used to define them more.

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That was somewhat how it used to be.

WAR didn't have damage mitigation like PLD and DRK did, instead increasing their Max HP and increasing the amount of healing they received.
DRK had a constant MP drain skill that would empower their damage but managing their MP was a big part of their gameplay since some of their tools required MP to use, such as Abyssal Drain being a GCD that used MP to deal damage and restore HP.
PLD was just the mitigation based tank.

It wasn't balanced all that well but it was doable.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

That was somewhat how it used to be.

WAR didn't have damage mitigation like PLD and DRK did, instead increasing their Max HP and increasing the amount of healing they received.
DRK had a constant MP drain skill that would empower their damage but managing their MP was a big part of their gameplay since some of their tools required MP to use, such as Abyssal Drain being a GCD that used MP to deal damage and restore HP.
PLD was just the mitigation based tank.

It wasn't balanced all that well but it was doable.

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Tanks right now aren't balanced eiter.
One of them has a monopoly on every niche, and the only other relevant tank can do 100 more dps.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

Tanks right now aren't balanced eiter.
One of them has a monopoly on every niche, and the only other relevant tank can do 100 more dps.

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This simply isn't true unless you're only talking about dungeons, in which case why are you complaining about balance in content that can be steamrolled with any comp?

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Originally Posted by Supersomething

What if no tanks had sustain and had to rely on healers to not die?

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I mean that was kind of what I called for in my post, but I also live in reality. I don't see SE ever doing that, because that would require re-tuning ultimates. And they'll never do that.

This is why this post is focused strictly on dungeons. Surely there must be a way to make the DRK experience through dungeons more palatable without completely screwing over raid balance.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

This simply isn't true unless you're only talking about dungeons, in which case why are you complaining about balance in content that can be steamrolled with any comp?

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It's almost like this is the point of the entire thread, if you'd only bothered to read the OP.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

DRK is fine. A skilled one barely takes damage if their gear isn't absolute garbage. If anything, all other tanks should have their sustain nuked to DRK levels.

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The fact is, DRK can’t help dps to survive.
It lacks of any kind of healing it can be used to help the party.
TBN and Oblation are good mitigation tools to use for party members, still you are only delaying the inevitable.

SE doesn’t know a thing about what they are doing with tanks and, well the game in general.
They made WAR to be an all-in-one and even GNB and PLD are much more useful than DRKs in whatever contents.
I should not mentioned how a PLD can be useful to a party member and even Aurora and HoC, If used wisely can keep a dps alive without any healer.
Tanks are supposed to be a SUPPORT role, at the end of the day, and SE removed the God-tier DpS DRk was used to have, and downgraded to a subversion of a tank.
Now it’s useless.
GNB is its better version, the only issue is the lack of TBN but wait for the next update and you’ll see WAR having it.

SE didn’t even changed Dark Mind, which is a good magic mitigation…but, for instance it is useless agains EX2 since its autos are physical, while that boss can easily be tanked by the other 3 tanks; most dungeon also have pulls dealing physically damage and instead of giving something like 10/10 they prefered to keep as it is.


I main DRK and I managed to solo the first boss of Alexandria, from 80%, thus I agree; a skilled player can find DRK’s survivability good enough for themselves, still its kit is not in line with the changes all tanks have been received so far and it become the last tank to have an use for party members.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Self sustain on other tanks absolutely should be nerfed. Criterion has already found a way to address the topic of 'our only healer died, what do we do?' by giving everyone a one time rez.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Other tanks should be nerfed to DRK sustain levels and there should be more ways to revive a dead healer instead of making it easy for everyone else to heal themselves and each other.

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Originally Posted by DaveFishnomer

No,

Yes, DRK is scuffed as ****, I say that as a DRK main, but the solution is not to make it have more self sustain, the solution should be
[snip]
B. Nerf self sustain across all tanks, WAR should have the most, but it's way way way too much rn.

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Originally Posted by SapphireWeapon

Literally no one is saying that, but thanks for coming to the party anyway, Captain Strawman.

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As (I hope) you can see, there are people literally saying that, so I don't understand what you mean, but thanks for your meaningless reply, captain Zero Reading Skills.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Well thats the problem isn't it? Dark Knight isn't doing all that much damage anymore, its currently in 3rd place, and is honestly in a very rough spot right now. Despite this the devs don't even care enough to note it in their balance change posts.

Regardless Abyssal Drain could honestly be a 2 charge 30s oGCD now given how much DRK lost in terms of buttons to press and I think it be fine.

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Yeah, I know what you mean, and i agree with you. That's why I think it should be placed on top. That's a mistake on their side. It's been like that with DPS roles too. No utility=More damage.

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Originally Posted by Ranhansha

As (I hope) you can see, there are people literally saying that, so I don't understand what you mean, but thanks for your meaningless reply, captain Zero Reading Skills.

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Saying there should be more than one way to revive a dead healer isn't tantrum-throwing lmao sensitive much

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Originally Posted by Ranhansha

Yeah, I know what you mean, and i agree with you. That's why I think it should be placed on top. That's a mistake on their side. It's been like that with DPS roles too. No utility=More damage.

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I personally liked the endwalker balance of GNB being stronger across the whole fight while DRK was stronger in burst windows and fights with downtime

Regardless with the current design of tanks it basically has to be: DRK/GNB for damage tanks and PLD/WAR for defense support tanks. But they only ever seem to balance for DPS.

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Originally Posted by Shikiseki

I wouldn't mind DRK to receive lots of HP drains if they get their signature HP-eater style attacks to go back to their thematic high risk high reward style

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This is something I've wanted for awhile as well, but I never knew if it was because dark knight was my favorite tank or not so it could've been bias speaking lol

Giving them high damage output but at the risk of losing health would be fun, and it'd make sense for them to drain hp from their foes in order to expend it for more damage.