/r/ffxivdiscussion: If you want WoW-style design, you're going to have to accept-

I'm hopeful some experimentation will take place, but I would caution that WoW healing is currently in the exact opposite place of FF14.

Instead of too little threat, there's arguably too much of it - a consequence of player strength through talents and defensive power creep. That's not an enviable position.

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Originally Posted by Lemuel81

FFXIV doesn't have to resemble WoW in its entirety but it can take ideas from it.

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Too true, citizen, but it's unfortunate that WoW is the boogeyman to some fans of FFXIV, so you're going to be met with lots of pushback.

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

Lol, you're not wrong. There was a time when I used to call out logical fallacies on these forums but then I realized it flew over people's heads most of the time or people remained willfully ignorant to it.

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Yes, citizen, the global forums blacklist proves very useful in combating this.

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

The addon literally tells you everything about the boss encounter and it accomplishes that with very noticeable visual/audio cues like bright flashing lights and icons, and loud horns and sirens lmao.

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But to also address your previous point about add-ons in WoW, add-ons do seem to be a bit out of control. A person who uses DBM has a huge advantage over someone who doesn't.





Go forth to victory.

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Originally Posted by Keldion

I'm hopeful some experimentation will take place, but I would caution that WoW healing is currently in the exact opposite place of FF14.

Instead of too little threat, there's arguably too much of it - a consequence of player strength through talents and defensive power creep. That's not an enviable position.

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Sounds like there is a middle road that should be easy to occupy instead of sticking to the extremes.

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Originally Posted by Amenara

Sounds like there is a middle road that should be easy to occupy instead of sticking to the extremes.

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That's the rub - no one wants the extremes, but it isn't easy to reach the middle road. When tanks and damage dealers are experienced at avoiding telegraph AOEs or mitigating what can't be avoided, the needed healing shrinks.

Everything is connected. I'd go as far to claim DRK is the best balanced tank regarding its reliance on healer support. I used to despise this fact, but I've had a change of heart.

Well considering ARR was inspired so much by Cata WoW, I think the devs can still take inspo from wow in certain ways.
Yeah we probably won't be getting 8 hour long raids or big open zones but the FFXIV devs looking at Preservation Evoker's DPS+Heal moves and thinking "hey these could work on Sage!" should still be on the table. WoW has its flaws over XIV but also its positives over XIV, fundementally both games are far more similar compared to other MMOs but with different design principals behind them, much easier to compare XIV to WoW then say Lost Ark. Healing in WOW is incredibly engaging and fun but at the same time extremely punishing when learning to the extent that you will probably have to look at guides to even understand what you are doing on some healers, while XIV healing is far easier to pick up and learn in game but incredibly brain dead and boring. Pretty much every trinity MMO has their flaws with the trinty, XIVs current problem is that the trinty is irrelevant while WOW has unbalanced specs and a large learning curve.

But yeah you can't really directly insert WOW logic into XIV, they have completely different logic and playerbases. Tanks in WOW have threat generation as incredibly important to the gameplay while XIV doesn't, Healing in WOW takes far more commitment you can't nearly full heal in an oGCD like in XIV constantly so if they do take inspo from WOW they'll have to adapt it to this or rework the healer role to be more like WOW if they decide thats a better route.
I for sure think if the 8.0 removal of levelling for another way of gaining power is being discussed the devs have to look at lots of games outside of WOW for inspo, a skill tree for example probably would not work in XIV. But I am cautiously optimistic about experimentation because the XIV endgame has remained pretty similar for most of its lifespan so a mix up of it should happen at some point.

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Originally Posted by Rekh

"wow style" is misleading; FF fans already know this from FFXI.
Of course some jobs will be OP while others will be looked down upon, that's fine as long as it's not blatant to the point where it feels on purpose.

As for everything else, they should not design jobs around savage/ultimates; instead they could have 2 modes for jobs like they do for pvp. One balanced for raids, one balanced for non-raiding (this one is the default for the game).

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this doesnt make sense, non-raiding/ cvasual wouldnt need balance, so having two different skews is assinine

This could work only if a whole system is revamping:
1- stop leveling after 100
2- add gearset system and abilities attach to gear with bonus effect like monster hunter gear sets
3- diverse tanks and healers with different stats and other ways to play the role.

Example paladin passive increase defence but warrior increase max hp + percentage life steal based on HP

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Originally Posted by Rekh

"wow style" is misleading; FF fans already know this from FFXI.
Of course some jobs will be OP while others will be looked down upon, that's fine as long as it's not blatant to the point where it feels on purpose.

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FFXI had a lot of cool ideas that were close to being great. The jobs were well designed but often hindered by the sub job system and how it was so limited..

For example a 75 war/ 37 whm could have been a really good tank if only the whm spells scaled better. Instead of cure being capped at 30hp cure 2 being capped at 90hp. Etc.

75 SMN 37 blm could also have been a strong choice if the low level blm spells scaled better at higher levels.

A lot of jobs would have had a lot of options if sub jobs scaled better. It was a cool idea that didn't quite reach its potential.

The other big issue XI had was it's bestiary was heavily biased. So many mob arch types shared the same weaknesses. You can see it just looking at xiclopedia. 90% of mobs weak to slashing ice and or thunder...

If the bestiary was better balanced a lot of those jobs would again have been a lot more promising and desirable.. again it was a great concept that came close but didn't quite make it...

It's job design was amazing. If only it had gotten the sub jobs and bestiary right to go with it.

I came from WoW when i started FF14. I love both Worlds, spend an insanely amound of time in them.

I never wanted FF14 to be like WoW, in particular not the mythic/m+, the skill-pacing and this freedom of mods. The mythic raids and the impact of mods completely broke to total balancing of WoW.

But i allways wished that FF14 would take some inspiration for how new Content can look like. New Content in FF14 so lame and cheaply made, its allways 30-40% of that what it could or even should be. To fast we reach the point of just repeating the same thing over and over again with nothing new coming in.
Daily quest of wild tribes are done in a few minutes. Some short cutscenes at some points and a few minutes of walking to a location to tell a little story. And thats all, you've seen everything after 2-3 days, "farm" the quests for 2-3 weeks and you are done with a whole contentpatch.

Or you have things like high sea fishing or the gold sourcer, 30-60% just waitingtime for the next possible interactiontime

Rynes Adventure to bring back the Elements in Shadowbringer. It felt so turned down to fit the standart 8-People-Raids-content.

Hunts! HOW And WHY is the Hunting-content in FF14 the most underdeveloped one? Hunting-trains are full with hundreds of players. Its good content to bring players out in the areas, great openworld group-content. But all crippled by stupid long SpawnCDs, no quests,no Hunting-faction, Archivement with out of reach kill requiements. It could be so much more part of the daily gameplay.

FF14 is lacking where WoW tends to have to much,ofc only in my opinion.

The fallacy is to think that because something bad happens in another game (here, WoW), then that bad thing is automatically going to crop up in XIV were it to attempt introducing variations, and that every attempt to do anything else than homogenization is doomed to fall into the exact same horrifying pitfalls.