Please Give Monk More Positionals in Dawntrail

LOL all this MNK and VPR positionals comparison. do y'all know how VPR combo work? they do have 6 different GCD skills that have 'positional' on them, but those are basically just the 3rd button in their 1-2-3 combos, since their 3rd button change to 6 different skills everytime.
so its still 1 (no pos) - 2 (no pos) - 3 (with pos). its the same as current MNK, SAM, & NIN with positional only on the 3rd button of the 1-2-3 combos.

I wouldnt stop y'all from asking for more positionals but sorry guys the envy on VPR positional is misplaced, since practically VPR doesnt do more positional than all the other melee jobs.

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Originally Posted by Ianmaru

LOL all this MNK and VPR positionals comparison. do y'all know how VPR combo work? they do have 6 different GCD skills that have 'positional' on them, but those are basically just the 3rd button in their 1-2-3 combos, since their 3rd button change to 6 different skills everytime.
so its still 1 (no pos) - 2 (no pos) - 3 (with pos). its the same as current MNK, SAM, & NIN with positional only on the 3rd button of the 1-2-3 combos.

I wouldnt stop y'all from asking for more positionals but sorry guys the envy on VPR positional is misplaced, since practically VPR doesnt do more positional than all the other melee jobs.

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It's more about the fact that they even have more than 2 or 3 to consider at all.

Viper still alternates between them for every combo finisher, even if it is quite basic it is still an active part of their kit unlike Monk which again, is going to be sitting on the flank for 9 whole GCDs.

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Originally Posted by Bananarama

It's more about the fact that they even have more than 2 or 3 to consider at all.

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??
Now lets say MNK gets 4 more GCD with positionals, but all of it are just Coeurl Form, and the current Snap Punch & Demolish simply change to New-GCD1 & New-GCD2 after another 1-2-3 loop, and then they change again to New-GCD3 & New-GCD4 after another 1-2-3 loop, and change back to Snap Punch & Demolish again after another 1-2-3 loop. is that what you want?
it doesnt matter gameplay-wise since practically you only hit the positional on the 3rd button of the 1-2-3 combo.
and thats NOT what y'all want in this thread. no one here is asking that kind of more positional on MNK.
Y'all are asking for more positionals in Opo-Opo and Raptor forms, which is basically the 1st and 2nd button on the 1-2-3 combo, and yet you're envious toward a job that doesn't even have what you want.

I'm telling you your envy is misplaced because you misunderstand VPR, and now you're saying 'It's more about the fact that they even have more than 2 or 3 to consider at all.'
No it's not. its always been about 'more positionals on the 1st & 2nd button of the 1-2-3 combo', not about 'more skills with positionals on the 3rd button only'.
at this point you're just grasping at straws to justify your envy while theres none to begin with.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

Viper still alternates between them for every combo finisher, even if it is quite basic it is still an active part of their kit unlike Monk which again, is going to be sitting on the flank for 9 whole GCDs.

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Now this is the better argument than the previous one I'm replying to.
Ok lets check the positional ratios of all the melees:

DRG: 1:1
RPR: 1:1
SAM: 1:1
MNK: 1:3
NIN: 1:2
VPR: 1:1

well I gotta say that you're right. but VPR is not the only with 1:1 flank/rear ratio, DRG RPR SAM also, so why the envy toward VPR only?
Although looking at this ratio, I agree maybe the previous 2-2-3 on MNK was better than the current 2-3-4, that way the ratio would stay at 1:2 at least.

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Originally Posted by Ianmaru

LOL all this MNK and VPR positionals comparison. do y'all know how VPR combo work? they do have 6 different GCD skills that have 'positional' on them, but those are basically just the 3rd button in their 1-2-3 combos, since their 3rd button change to 6 different skills everytime.
so its still 1 (no pos) - 2 (no pos) - 3 (with pos). its the same as current MNK, SAM, & NIN with positional only on the 3rd button of the 1-2-3 combos.

I wouldnt stop y'all from asking for more positionals but sorry guys the envy on VPR positional is misplaced, since practically VPR doesnt do more positional than all the other melee jobs.

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This is slightly incorrect. The 6 positionals aren't all tied to the the two 123 combos. Only four are.

While Viper does have 6 positionals altogether, two of the rears and two of the flanks are from the third combo hits of the dual wield combos.

These skills are Flanksbane Fang, Hindsbane Fang, Flanksting Strike and Hindsting Strike.

Then Viper has 2 more back to back positional attacks on the dual blade combo that comes after Dreadwinder, Rear / Flank
These two skills are Hunters Coil (Flank ) and Swiftskins coil(rear)
these two skills also have two double weaves that they require after each of them and are meant to be done back to back.

This combo is only used every 40s ish though. The GCD is also like 3s on the DreadWinder combo and 2.5ish seconds on the two basic GCD combos that have you alternate positionals every combo.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

This is slightly incorrect. The 6 positionals aren't all tied to the the two 123 combos. Only four are.

While Viper does have 6 positionals altogether, two of the rears and two of the flanks are from the third combo hits of the dual wield combos.

These skills are Flanksbane Fang, Hindsbane Fang, Flanksting Strike and Hindsting Strike.

Then Viper has 2 more back to back positional attacks on the dual blade combo that comes after Dreadwinder, Rear / Flank
These two skills are Hunters Coil (Flank ) and Swiftskins coil(rear)
these two skills also have two double weaves that they require after each of them and are meant to be done back to back.

This combo is only used every 40s ish though. The GCD is also like 3s on the DreadWinder combo and 2.5ish seconds on the two basic GCD combos that have you alternate positionals every combo.

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true.
I highly oversimplified my explanation to make my point concise.
Still doesnt change the fact that VPR's positional is not what ppl here want on MNK though, and that their envy is misplaced because they blindly look at the amount of the skills while disregarding how they work.

I can understand removing a lot of positionals with the Nadi system coming in for Endwalker as it would be a lot to keep track of with positionals, nadi, snakes, and demolish for sure, but now with two of those elements removed I think it'd be nice to focus on positionals for the "downtime" between bursts as we're no longer focusing on maintaining a buff and a DoT. As it stands from what we've seen of the media tour we'll be hogging the flank only to move and do a single rear positional once every 20-ish seconds which seems dreadfully boring. If we're going to follow a strict combo with a glowing button on the hotbar I would vastly prefer doing so while still having to do positionals for better damage.

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Originally Posted by Ianmaru

true.
I highly oversimplified my explanation to make my point concise.
Still doesnt change the fact that VPR's positional is not what ppl here want on MNK though, and that their envy is misplaced because they blindly look at the amount of the skills while disregarding how they work.

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Nah it isn't quite the same as how things used to be, but at least there is a back to back positional there at all and more than only 2 attacks have the positional.

So while it's mostly similar to current jobs it does have a slight bit more in the positional department. Even if it's only slightly.

Personally I would be happy if every melee had a positional on every attack XD, coming from being a Monk main in the early days of the game that was super fun to me and I still do the old positionals out of habit and muscle memory. But I know that a lot of people would probably hate that lol.

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Originally Posted by Terrzyl

I can understand removing a lot of positionals with the Nadi system coming in for Endwalker as it would be a lot to keep track of with positionals, nadi, snakes, and demolish for sure, but now with two of those elements removed I think it'd be nice to focus on positionals for the "downtime" between bursts as we're no longer focusing on maintaining a buff and a DoT. As it stands from what we've seen of the media tour we'll be hogging the flank only to move and do a single rear positional once every 20-ish seconds which seems dreadfully boring. If we're going to follow a strict combo with a glowing button on the hotbar I would vastly prefer doing so while still having to do positionals for better damage.

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Couldn't have put it better myself. When the rest of Monk is being simplified to such a degree it only makes sense to return some of their movement to them.

In there current form they should be scrapped entirely. they make next to no difference in the long haul. often amounting to a whopping 2 potency per second at best.. you cannot even measure it.. any variation you did measure would often be hidden by rng varience in crit/dh/latency etc.. absolutely worthless system and they should either be completely scrapped or reworked to actually carry impact..

1.23 for example the positionals were on the first hit of a combo. if you missed a positional you couldnt combo at all.. that in turn made actually landing them feel rewarding and it carried impact.. significantly better than what we have currently.

as it stands land them or miss them it makes zero difference theres no impact at all. often evident by people not even realising they missed them.. as it didnt make a difference....

give them real impact or scrap them entirely.