SE, if you're reworking Jobs in 8.0 anyway, just give us Levi, Ramuh, and Shiva NOW!

I don’t believe they’re reworking jobs in 8.0. I think they’re just kicking the can. The only reason they even mentioned it was because they knew people were going to be disappointed or underwhelmed with the chances in 7.0 and wanted to buy some time.

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Originally Posted by hunter2

I wrote up some ideas for new lego, this seems like as good a thread as any to post it in.
https://i.imgur.com/XvzsgtL.png

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As far as I'm concerned, it's all too instant cast which doesn't help make the class fun, as the summons would behave in the exact same way each other.
Furthermore, if there were to be so many summons, I would avoid the consequentiality like the plague: 3 in Bahamut and 3 in Phoenix, because it is the death of design and fun; but I would go more with a build system, where you choose the 3 summons during phoenix/bahamut/Solar Bahamut based on what you think you'll need.

However, in reality this new smn with so many summons is not compatible. The old one was much more compatible

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Originally Posted by Ggwppino

As far as I'm concerned, it's all too instant cast which doesn't help make the class fun, as the summons would behave in the exact same way each other.
Furthermore, if there were to be so many summons, I would avoid the consequentiality like the plague: 3 in Bahamut and 3 in Phoenix, because it is the death of design and fun; but I would go more with a build system, where you choose the 3 summons during phoenix/bahamut/Solar Bahamut based on what you think you'll need.

However, in reality this new smn with so many summons is not compatible. The old one was much more compatible

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This game is so beyond buildcraft in its railroaded action design I really don't understand why people keep advocating for swappable skills. I see it a lot in the SMN discussions and I think it is delusional. The idea of choice, even if it does best suit SMN more than many other classes, just does not exist in FFXIV anymore, and increasingly less so.

If people want any sort of modularity in their summon choices, at best we are looking at glamours. Full stop.

Well for starters, It's time to break apart the way SCH and SMN are tied together for leveling. Give SCH's pre-class over to arcanist, and instead give SMN a pre-class of "Evoker". It was a cute surprise way back in the day, and back in the day the two played very similar. But now that is vastly different. Instead of the way the Egis come out to do their janky attack because it's still tied to the ghost of its original pet class, break it off into being more like the 90 animations. The crayola pack needs more variety than what is shown here. Ninja Mudra combinations and now Pictomancer's easels show just how 25% baked that summoner actually is in complexity and options.

Summoner only has: carbuncle, ifrit, garuda, titan, bahamut, and phoenix.

Out of the current primals the WoL has been put go head to head against: Moggle Mog XII, Leviathan, Ramuh, Shiva, Thordan, Ravana, Bismark, Odin, Alexander, Lakshmi, Sephirot, Sophia, Zurvan, Susano, Tsukuyomi, Magus Sisters, and Anima.
Since Alexander is time oriented, it could have something akin to wildfire.

Don't give them excuses of anything like "But the WoL has had aether of phoenix and etc. and been filled up" That is lazy and half hearted. Them announcing to look forward to 8.0 already; is it because they have so little faith in how 7.0 will be received?

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Originally Posted by Manamaru

Don't give them excuses of anything like "But the WoL has had aether of phoenix and etc. and been filled up" That is lazy and half hearted. Them announcing to look forward to 8.0 already; is it because they have so little faith in how 7.0 will be received?

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Don't worry, they already screwed that bit of nonsense discontinuity now that WoL can summon fanfic Bahamut. Summoner will never be anything but coilmage. That's all its been for 5 expansions now and it was honestly overplayed in Heavensward. I personally can't wait for 8.0 and the only change is a phoenix upgrade to techno Lunar Phoenix or whatever.

Also, should swap Odin for Shinryu and drop the warring triad to have a list of canonical primals (now that Shadowbringers has essentially canonized Alexander and Omega happening). If you want to add in optional primals then the list becomes.... extensive.

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Originally Posted by Manamaru

Well for starters, It's time to break apart the way SCH and SMN are tied together for leveling. Give SCH's pre-class over to arcanist, and instead give SMN a pre-class of "Evoker".

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I think it should be the other way around since there's a tiny bit of overlap between ARC and SCH and a huge amount of overlap between ARC and SMN in terms of abilities. SCH keeps like one skill and a couple of traits from ARC and SMN keeps around two dozen skills and several traits.

I would say make SCH a 30+ job like the HW jobs and start the whole thing with you discovering the faerie. Barely any changes required to the story.

What I don't get is why... of all cosmetic (non-)changes... we get a worse-skinned, less-thematic Bahamut as a visual upgrade instead of just having every other Trance (set of gems) instead grant, say, Shiva, Ramut, and Leviathan instead of Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda. (Granted, I'd prefer they each have their own novel skills, but still, if limited to such little distinction as the rest have, the change would be predominantly cosmetic.)

Or, if willing to actually offer at least some degree of change... why aren't we opening with a Demi-Summon that in turn adjusts which set of Trances it makes available to us?

...Granted, I'd also have been more than happy to bring back Egis and actual pet play if it could be revamped for sufficient responsiveness. Or at least to slow the cycling rate of summons to give each a bit more time (and accordant tools) to feel better fleshed out instead of just opening with varying skins of Flare and getting X number of enhanced Ruin / Tri-disaster casts...

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Originally Posted by Flana

Don't worry, they already screwed that bit of nonsense discontinuity now that WoL can summon fanfic Bahamut. .

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I don’t like fanfic bahamut much, but if it is demi hydaelyn then chronologically she did temper the player character in the introductory cutscene, so before the ifrit fight. Unless you’re a 1.0 character in which case I’m not sure.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

I don’t like fanfic bahamut much, but if it is demi hydaelyn then chronologically she did temper the player character in the introductory cutscene, so before the ifrit fight. Unless you’re a 1.0 character in which case I’m not sure.

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The 1.0 opening cutscenes also have star showers so that point is unchanged

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Originally Posted by fulminating

I don’t like fanfic bahamut much, but if it is demi hydaelyn then chronologically she did temper the player character in the introductory cutscene, so before the ifrit fight. Unless you’re a 1.0 character in which case I’m not sure.

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If it is supposed to be Demi-Hydaelyn then it shouldn't look like a lizard and be named 'Solar Bahamut.'