"SUMMONER" 7.0 Wishlist.

this obsession with adding Ramuh/Leviathan/Shiva/Alexander/whatever that everyone has with SMN is honestly so embarrassing...

guys, can we address literally anything else about the job first before adding more superficial rainbow explosions? Aetherflow? Carby?

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

this obsession with adding Ramuh/Leviathan/Shiva/Alexander/whatever that everyone has with SMN is honestly so embarrassing...

guys, can we address literally anything else about the job first before adding more superficial rainbow explosions? Aetherflow? Carby?

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What; you mean having having 6 colours of ruin 3 instead of three to cast isn’t a job identity

Preposterous, pls take your wrong opinions somewhere else /s

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

this obsession with adding Ramuh/Leviathan/Shiva/Alexander/whatever that everyone has with SMN is honestly so embarrassing...

guys, can we address literally anything else about the job first before adding more superficial rainbow explosions? Aetherflow? Carby?

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Nothing "embarrassing" about peoples individual WISHLISTS for a job they love...only thing that is actually embarrassing is your attitude...

Furthermore, at the risk of being mistaken...I will assume you are unaware of the history regarding SMN and having Leviathan, Ramuh and Shiva as summons. These three have actually been promised for SMN since way back in the 2.x patch cycle. This was back when SMN was a DoT mage with full control over the Egi as true pets. A model for the Ramuh-Egi was actually developed but ended up being used in the game as the Grey Arbiters in the Ramuh trial. Furthermore in Live Letters back from the 2.x cycle Yoshi-P himself even spoke of a Shiva-Egi being in active development and it apparently looking something like a "cute ice nun"

OG SMN mains have been dying for these three summons ever since they were promised 10 YEARS AGO! So yeah, of course people want them!....

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Originally Posted by SoloWingMetatron

Nothing "embarrassing" about peoples individual WISHLISTS for a job they love...only thing that is actually embarrassing is your attitude...

Furthermore, at the risk of being mistaken...I will assume you are unaware of the history regarding SMN and having Leviathan, Ramuh and Shiva as summons. These three have actually been promised for SMN since way back in the 2.x patch cycle. This was back when SMN was a DoT mage with full control over the Egi as true pets. A model for the Ramuh-Egi was actually developed but ended up being used in the game as the Grey Arbiters in the Ramuh trial. Furthermore in Live Letters back from the 2.x cycle Yoshi-P himself even spoke of a Shiva-Egi being in active development and it apparently looking something like a "cute ice nun"

OG SMN mains have been dying for these three summons ever since they were promised 10 YEARS AGO! So yeah, of course people want them!....

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But what would they add to SMN, the job is a level 60 job masquerading as a level 90 job as it is, they can’t even do anything unique with the current 3 primals, what does adding 3 new ones actually do besides aesthetic differences

Additions to a job should evolve the job (well besides healers but square pretends they don’t exist), as it stands right now they have shown no proof they have any idea what they are doing with current SMN so what does adding more of the same actually achieve

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

But what would they add to SMN, the job is a level 60 job masquerading as a level 90 job as it is, they can’t even do anything unique with the current 3 primals, what does adding 3 new ones actually do besides aesthetic differences

Additions to a job should evolve the job (well besides healers but square pretends they don’t exist), as it stands right now they bane shown no proof they have any idea what they are doing with current SMN so what does adding more of the same actually achieve

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That's a very fair point. I had the same concern when they brought the new Gemshine Summon mechanic into play...We never got Leviathan/Ramuh/Shiva as Egi back then for the same reason. As a result they were put on the back burner and promised as Egi Glamours instead...(and the devs have failed on that promise too I might add!) So even as Gemshine Summons, it's true they would be better off as glamours...However the purpose of the thread is for an individuals wishlist...Having Leviathan/Ramuh/Shiva even as glamours is a wish many SMN players still have. Therefore they're perfectly valid inclusions to have on a SMN wishlist...It is very bizarre that there are people here who are genuinly trying to gatekeep a wishlist of all things...like, the clue is in the name WISH...

With that being said, not a single person here has said they would want Leviathan/Ramuh/Shiva over SMN being given an actual identity! These are just hypothetical wishlists...I dunno why people be acting as if only one thing on each list can be chosen over another...How about we get the entire list of wishes...That's the point afterall!

The debate about additional summons being useful and what individual purpose they would serve in the SMN toolkit is one that raged back when 3.0 was on the horizon, and it ultimately lead to the other summons (Leviathan/Ramuh/Shiva/even Sephirot) promised as Egi Glamours by Yoshi-P himself...After 3.0 the debate rose again, this time people wanted multiple Trances for each Summon...but again, it was the same issue...Then, after 4.0/5.0 it was multiple Demi's...And now again the same debate has come back with Gemshines...

I think the problem is that the fundamental game mechanics don't allow for enough leeway for multiple truly unique summons to exist...FFXIV is just so insanley vertical in all aspects that there is no room for any kind of flavour or customization to really anything other than glamour and cosmetics. Everything is designed to fit a cookie cutter mold that is used and reused until it falls apart. SMN can never be a true SMN as a result...In fact, I'd argue the only way it could would be to turn it into a Limited Job...because there is no other way to get every summon with unique mechanics/functions into the game any other way unless it's through glamours.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

But what would they add to SMN, the job is a level 60 job masquerading as a level 90 job as it is, they can’t even do anything unique with the current 3 primals, what does adding 3 new ones actually do besides aesthetic differences

Additions to a job should evolve the job (well besides healers but square pretends they don’t exist), as it stands right now they have shown no proof they have any idea what they are doing with current SMN so what does adding more of the same actually achieve

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Certainly, especially if they keep the current system and add Leviathan, Shiva, Ramuh to the rotation, they will only be imitations of Ifrit, Garuda, Titan's mechanisms.

With the current meta based on bursts every 120s, they simply cannot afford DPS fluctuations between the old elemental summons and the new ones.

The worst part is that they won't be able to create unique things either because it would create too much disparity between the cycle after Bahamut and after Phoenix.

In the current state of things, as you mentioned, it would be like a reskin of the three basic summons.

They need to modify how the summoner works for it to be possible and for the job's identity to evolve, not stagnate with an ultra-limited design locked behind a simple reskin system.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

this obsession with adding Ramuh/Leviathan/Shiva/Alexander/whatever that everyone has with SMN is honestly so embarrassing...

guys, can we address literally anything else about the job first before adding more superficial rainbow explosions? Aetherflow? Carby?

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Why when obviously it’s not gonna change. “Ahem” healers. Been screaming for years and yet nothing. This is the iteration of summoner we have so might as well roll with it. It’s not gonna change. At least not anything soon. It’s a very popular job right now.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...75#post6402875

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

Why when obviously it’s not gonna change. “Ahem” healers. Been screaming for years and yet nothing. This is the iteration of summoner we have so might as well roll with it. It’s not gonna change. At least not anything soon. It’s a very popular job right now.

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don't care + cringe defeatism + I'm not asking for DoT mage back

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Originally Posted by remiff

They need to modify how the summoner works for it to be possible and for the job's identity to evolve, not stagnate with an ultra-limited design locked behind a simple reskin system.

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the job (in my opinion, anyway) at the barest minimum to improve requires a change to demi summons and a revisit to the gems' placement in the rotation. specifically, the rigid cooldown on Bahamut/Phoenix and gem summons and how they leave no room for substantial future additions. without addressing that, there's pretty much no moving forward with SMN.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

the job (in my opinion, anyway) at the barest minimum to improve requires a change to demi summons and a revisit to the gems' placement in the rotation. specifically, the rigid cooldown on Bahamut/Phoenix and gem summons and how they leave no room for substantial future additions. without addressing that, there's pretty much no moving forward with SMN.

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The more I think about it, the worse it gets, even as somebody who doesn't typically try to analyze jobs, but this one's just right there in your face. I'm actually worried they will just add three new summons that replace I/T/G during Phoenix phase, because honestly that's the most straightforward thing they can do with that's on the table. "Well, many players were requesting it... Please look forward to it." Three new summons, and a resource that generates once you go through all 6 primals that's used on a new 120s instant-cast ability you'll use during buffs. I don't like it, but I bet that's what they're going to do, unless they actually do want to do some reworking.