"The Discourse is Dumb and Endwalker is FINE" - Wesk Alber

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volgia

The thing that kind of annoys me of this video is that he makes an argument that nobody is arguing against. Like "See how HW was janky and EW is not janky?", like no one is arguing that past expansions had QoL fixes, we're complaining about the gutting of content, the lobotomization of dungeons and 24 man raids, the fact that encounters even in savage and ultimate have become so streamlined there can only be one way of doing them, etcera. The thing that pisses me off when people go all positive for Endwalker is how comformist they seem. We miss HW and SB and a bit of SHB because we had to figure shit out and use our brains, we don't miss the fact that cooldown weren't reset when wiping or things like that.

---

That's what i miss about those expansions. I don't think about how janky people remember them I think about the enjoyment of figuring things out and how difficult things wre and want the difficulty back. Even with some of the jankiness heavansward had i have lots more good memories then bad back then.

Heavensward was fun because we didn't have as many World Racers, The Balance Discord (it was still a baby back then), FFlogs wasn't overly popular yet, server limitations so more group loyalty, and many other things. Without all of those, it was easier to enjoy 3.X playing how you wanted to play or figure things out. Nowadays there's zero excuse to be bad when all these resources exist and pro players to ask for help. Different would back then in more than just the content it offered

47 minutes? Is the guy hiring a video editor? I promise whatever message he's trying to say can be compressed to AT LEAST half that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volgia

The thing that kind of annoys me of this video is that he makes an argument that nobody is arguing against. Like "See how HW was janky and EW is not janky?", like no one is arguing that past expansions had QoL fixes, we're complaining about the gutting of content, the lobotomization of dungeons and 24 man raids, the fact that encounters even in savage and ultimate have become so streamlined there can only be one way of doing them, etcera. The thing that pisses me off when people go all positive for Endwalker is how comformist they seem. We miss HW and SB and a bit of SHB because we had to figure shit out and use our brains, we don't miss the fact that cooldown weren't reset when wiping or things like that.

---

Imo this video in general was made either in bad faith or for the purpose of ego stroking. "You guys know I complain a lot so if I'm not complaining about EW it must be good", "I don't understand your problems with your Job bc you are just copying what someone else said". Bro needs to stop being so dam obtuse. I don't play the majority of classes in this game, I can (and have) spoken to players who have ideas for their jobs (like WHM) that extend beyond making healers a DPS class. He's acting like players have no creativity when that isn't true-- he just doesn't want to hear it because the jobs could be boring as all hell and he wouldn't care. He's hiding behind this "please explain it in a way I can understand" when he will never understand because balance and QoL etc are his barometers for success.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Imo this video in general was made either in bad faith or for the purpose of ego stroking. "You guys know I complain a lot so if I'm not complaining about EW it must be good", "I don't understand your problems with your Job bc you are just copying what someone else said". Bro needs to stop being so dam obtuse. I don't play the majority of classes in this game, I can (and have) spoken to players who have ideas for their jobs (like WHM) that extend beyond making healers a DPS class. He's acting like players have no creativity when that isn't true-- he just doesn't want to hear it because the jobs could be boring as all hell and he wouldn't care. He's hiding behind this "please explain it in a way I can understand" when he will never understand because balance and QoL etc are his barometers for success.

---

I'll definitely be curious to see what Wesk thinks after his main job gets smacked with the rework stick in DT.

I do have to wonder if his perspective is colored by maining one of the few jobs in the game that hasn't been totally gutted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Imo this video in general was made either in bad faith or for the purpose of ego stroking. "You guys know I complain a lot so if I'm not complaining about EW it must be good", "I don't understand your problems with your Job bc you are just copying what someone else said". Bro needs to stop being so dam obtuse. I don't play the majority of classes in this game, I can (and have) spoken to players who have ideas for their jobs (like WHM) that extend beyond making healers a DPS class. He's acting like players have no creativity when that isn't true-- he just doesn't want to hear it because the jobs could be boring as all hell and he wouldn't care. He's hiding behind this "please explain it in a way I can understand" when he will never understand because balance and QoL etc are his barometers for success.

---

I want to add that it's not only on bad faith, but that it damages the discourse about making the game better. He says "Explain to me in a way I can understand and give that feedback to the devs", as if we aren't doing that constantly. What does he want, for us to do the dev's job in designing the game? The "Stand and let it resolve" dude at least had some points if not some flaws, I feel like this video does nothing but poison the discourse and criticism to just conform to how things are currently.

Zepla and Arthras usually are just broadcasting the feelings of the community, I have complicated feelings about the former, but she's absolutely right that the vibes of Endwalker are off. As for people like Xenos I just don't like their "Asmongold of 14" kind of vibe and so I don't listen to him very much. I feel like it's kind of arrogant to say that people are just parroting things they've heard from other people, you can feel acknowledged by what someone else is saying even if you cannot put it into words or give a big critical analysis on why there are design flaws.

"Criticism is art"

https://cdn.betterttv.net/emote/5830...b0186b/1x.webp

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nebelheim

That's what i miss about those expansions. I don't think about how janky people remember them I think about the enjoyment of figuring things out and how difficult things wre and want the difficulty back. Even with some of the jankiness heavansward had i have lots more good memories then bad back then.

---

Why isn't the majority of the player base clearing week one if things don't still have to be figured out?

What's the big difference in the game for those who have been playing since ARR or HW until now? You've got an additional 8 years experience at playing the game that you lacked back then and so you have more knowledge about what to expect.

Knowledge is power. Someone who's only been playing for a year (especially if this is their first MMO) lacks that experience and knowledge. It's going to take them a lot more time to figure things out than the ARR/HW veterans.

Look at the various world first raiders from WoW that have gotten into FFXIV raiding this expansion. They are not bad players. They are very much used to figuring things out on their own. Yet it's still taking them longer to clear FFXIV Savage and Ultimate than FFXIV veterans because they don't have the years of FFXIV experience to draw on.

You do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volgia

I want to add that it's not only on bad faith, but that it damages the discourse about making the game better. He says "Explain to me in a way I can understand and give that feedback to the devs", as if we aren't doing that constantly. What does he want, for us to do the dev's job in designing the game? The "Stand and let it resolve" dude at least had some points if not some flaws, I feel like this video does nothing but poison the discourse and criticism to just conform to how things are currently.

Zepla and Arthras usually are just broadcasting the feelings of the community, I have complicated feelings about the former, but she's absolutely right that the vibes of Endwalker are off. As for people like Xenos I just don't like their "Asmongold of 14" kind of vibe and so I don't listen to him very much. I feel like it's kind of arrogant to say that people are just parroting things they've heard from other people, you can feel acknowledged by what someone else is saying even if you cannot put it into words or give a big critical analysis on why there are design flaws.

---

Regarding influencers, it is interesting to me that self described midcore streamers like Zepla are not really streaming the game right now and somewhat unhappy, while streamers like Xenosys stream it daily and are dismissive of the criticisms of the game. It is becoming increasingly apparent that one side of the player base chases world first attempts and optimization (with everything else being secondary)while the other is more concerned with an array of aspects (job rotations, two minute meta, open world. exploratory zones, etc).

The reason Endwalker is the worst expansion to me is pretty simple, previously when the game would drop bad or flawed systems, the community would react to it, and it would eventually get fixed in one form or another.
In Endwalker, every piece of content they've dropped has been pretty flawed and poorly received, they haven't even acknowledged their problems, and then they turn around and lie to us in interviews about these pieces of content being "wildly popular".

V&C Dungeons (both) are not popular
Eureka Orthos is the worst DD and its queue died remarkably fast
The less we talk about Island Sanctuary the better