So when is AST getting nerfed in Frontline

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Originally Posted by maximesan514

I mean.. I agree... but its sooo broken and they dont do anything... its been broken for over a year now...

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I don't think the solution to a broken issue is to create more problems. Removing the ability to do pre-mades does make it harder for players to effectively do stuff like DRK+DRG, yet you can still do that even without a pre-made. You don't fix the actual issue, you just make it harder to do. The problem still exists, and now I can't just do a chill game with my friends where we just play for fun, because of a lazy fix that didn't actually do anything.

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

An example of one premade we get:There is job imbalance, yes. But there is an immense difference between playing vs teams of randoms and a premade. A good premade is coordinated, attacks are pre-prepared and simultaneous, all aimed at the same target group. Very heavy, concentrated damage on a pre-positioned group of victims. Repeatedly.
Regardless of how well they try to coordinate, a random team's attacks will be a little more spaced. There will be slight delays, giving target players the opportunity to change position, heal, or defend. Any 'simultaneous' attacks will be by chance and unlikely to be repeated consistently throughout a game

If the problem was purely job imbalance, you would see no difference between playing a random team and a premade one. In reality, the difference is a gaping chasm

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Being able to coordinate with people is obviously an advantage, and being able to do so with people in a pre-made is also much easier. It still doesn't change the fact that you are still able to do so with or without a pre-made. I'd argue that being able to coordinate with the other 20-23 randoms in your alliance is much better than an individual pre-made. If you have a game where you just have some guy who can easily just do callouts to tell the entire alliance where to go, that is far more effective than a 4 man pre-made coordinating an LB push to win one fight every 90s at most. Because even with how annoying it is to go up against those people, those 4 players can't possibly carry an entire team to victory if no one is actually playing objectives and farming BH off of the leading team.

People finally realize how strong AST is in frontlines, I feel like it's been a sleeper pick for months, aside from those who knew. Can easily top the dmg ranking, macrococosmos hits hard and its whole kit is strong and full of utility, exponentially more so with competent players in your party or as a premade.

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Originally Posted by Teno

People finally realize how strong AST is in frontlines, I feel like it's been a sleeper pick for months, aside from those who knew. Can easily top the dmg ranking, macrococosmos hits hard and its whole kit is strong and full of utility, exponentially more so with competent players in your party or as a premade.

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Did you see your last line? Of course that's true. On the other hand, if your party scatters to the four corners of the map then the AST goes to waste.

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Originally Posted by Astralrisk

I don't think the solution to a broken issue is to create more problems. Removing the ability to do pre-mades does make it harder for players to effectively do stuff like DRK+DRG, yet you can still do that even without a pre-made. You don't fix the actual issue, you just make it harder to do. The problem still exists, and now I can't just do a chill game with my friends where we just play for fun, because of a lazy fix that didn't actually do anything.

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A multitude of problems contribute to the situation, including: class imbalances (DRK, in particular), premade parties (coordinating attacks to maximize damage whilst hindering any attempts to stop/prevent it), player attitude (defeatism upon realising they're against a premade).

I enjoy playing with friends and would rather a different solution than just to ban all parties and make it a solo queue, but if that's what's needed to prevent premade teams (as they will no longer be able to queue together and guarantee being in the same team consistently), then I will go with it. Premades have become far too much of an issue to ignore any longer and to let them continue will only push casual / solo players further away from FLs.

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Being able to coordinate with people is obviously an advantage, and being able to do so with people in a pre-made is also much easier. It still doesn't change the fact that you are still able to do so with or without a pre-made. I'd argue that being able to coordinate with the other 20-23 randoms in your alliance is much better than an individual pre-made. If you have a game where you just have some guy who can easily just do callouts to tell the entire alliance where to go, that is far more effective than a 4 man pre-made coordinating an LB push to win one fight every 90s at most.

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Some random teams are excellent at coordinating their attacks but, regardless of how good they are, they still do not come remotely close to the coordination and advantage that is obtained by premades. I totally disagree with your suggestion that a random team can achieve the same or better results than a good premade. A bad one, perhaps. But not a good one.

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Because even with how annoying it is to go up against those people, those 4 players can't possibly carry an entire team to victory if no one is actually playing objectives and farming BH off of the leading team.

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:rolleyes:

http://i.imgur.com/9gR1Z7P.png


I've covered the names of all for anonymity, but I don't need to point out which are the premade.

(I would add - this in an Onsal Hakair match which didn't have too much time spent in the centre platform, so most of this was obtained on quite open areas of the map.
Now imagine what the scores would be in somewhere like Fields of Glory or in a Onsal Hakair match which did have lots of time on the centre platform.)

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

A multitude of problems contribute to the situation, including: class imbalances (DRK, in particular), premade parties (coordinating attacks to maximize damage whilst hindering any attempts to stop/prevent it), player attitude (defeatism upon realising they're against a premade).

I enjoy playing with friends and would rather a different solution than just to ban all parties and make it a solo queue, but if that's what's needed to prevent premade teams (as they will no longer be able to queue together and guarantee being in the same team consistently), then I will go with it. Premades have become far too much of an issue to ignore any longer and to let them continue will only push casual / solo players further away from FLs

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I still don't think this is a great solution to ban them for a more "balanced" game, since you can solve the issue in a lot better ways. When problems occur in other games with groups of players abusing the meta and make the game worse when playing against them, devs don't make it harder by removing the ability to play with your friends across the entire player base. Instead, they look at what those players are using to abuse the game and remove that instead. I think your image proves the point more of the issue being the meta just being dominated by how strong jobs like DRG/DRK/AST are rather than a pre-made. Especially since you don't need to be in a pre-made to abuse the meta, it just gets worse in that enviorment.

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

Some random teams are excellent at coordinating their attacks but, regardless of how good they are, they still do not come remotely close to the coordination and advantage that is obtained by premades. I totally disagree with your suggestion that a random team can achieve the same or better results than a good premade. A bad one, perhaps. But not a good one.

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I agree that a pre-made is overall better, especially a good one. As said before though, that's just been a common thing in multiplayer games since forever. Being able to talk to and coordinate with a competent player directly and personally has always existed. Yet, no games have gone out of there way to try and keep that from happening, and I don't understand why the opposite has to be the case in this game. . This is an Massive Multiplayer Online game, where having the ability to play with others of your choosing is important. Removing that ability would just make playing the mode worse, and might not even fix the issues with the mode since you can just queue sync and hope your on the same team.

The meta is already Zerging, or haven't you been paying attention?