The 2nd job in Dawntrails should be....

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

they did say that. imo they should stop with jobs all together and add skill trees or professions. make jobs feel more dynamic

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That would make the game too difficult for the audience they've been trying to target in recent years.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

That would make the game too difficult for the audience they've been trying to target in recent years.

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More like it would make it too difficulty for them to balance jobs, creating the neverending complaint stream about balance.

One of these days, MMORPG developers need to face the underlying problem: they're trying to create jobs as if they're making a competitive game instead of a RPG. Balance shouldn't be a consideration in a RPG.

Those who are competitive by nature can restrict themselves to the FotM jobs that the theorycrafters have decided are the best for the latest content release and switch when something else ends up FotM the next release.

Those who are more interested in the RPG aspects can pick what they have fun playing.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

More like it would make it too difficulty for them to balance jobs, creating the neverending complaint stream about balance.

One of these days, MMORPG developers need to face the underlying problem: they're trying to create jobs as if they're making a competitive game instead of a RPG. Balance shouldn't be a consideration in a RPG.

Those who are competitive by nature can restrict themselves to the FotM jobs that the theorycrafters have decided are the best for the latest content release and switch when something else ends up FotM the next release.

Those who are more interested in the RPG aspects can pick what they have fun playing.

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You seem to have overlooked that there have also been a fair amount of job changes that weren't centered around balancing the endgame meta and were simply done to dumb the job down making it require less functioning braincells.

However you did hit on 1 important thing in that they're looking at how an MMORPG should function in the wrong way. FFXI honestly hit the mark of how an MMORPG should be mechanically far better as it provided a wide range of options to players on how to gear and set up their characters for encounters while also varying the areas and encounters in a way that essentially prevented the "1 meta to rule them all" mentality as it could make 1 encounter trivial but another nearly impossible. We'd probably see a fair amount of FFXIV players migrate to FFXI if the game got a UI update and graphical facelift.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

You seem to have overlooked that there have also been a fair amount of job changes that weren't centered around balancing the endgame meta and were simply done to dumb the job down making it require less functioning braincells.

However you did hit on 1 important thing in that they're looking at how an MMORPG should function in the wrong way. FFXI honestly hit the mark of how an MMORPG should be mechanically far better as it provided a wide range of options to players on how to gear and set up their characters for encounters while also varying the areas and encounters in a way that essentially prevented the "1 meta to rule them all" mentality as it could make 1 encounter trivial but another nearly impossible. We'd probably see a fair amount of FFXIV players migrate to FFXI if the game got a UI update and graphical facelift.

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I think all you'd need is to combine the subs and launcher.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

You seem to have overlooked that there have also been a fair amount of job changes that weren't centered around balancing the endgame meta and were simply done to dumb the job down making it require less functioning braincells.

However you did hit on 1 important thing in that they're looking at how an MMORPG should function in the wrong way. FFXI honestly hit the mark of how an MMORPG should be mechanically far better as it provided a wide range of options to players on how to gear and set up their characters for encounters while also varying the areas and encounters in a way that essentially prevented the "1 meta to rule them all" mentality as it could make 1 encounter trivial but another nearly impossible. We'd probably see a fair amount of FFXIV players migrate to FFXI if the game got a UI update and graphical facelift.

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I would enjoy having ff11 style combat and job functions in a modern mmo. And wish they would modernize ff11's UI and graphics and merger ff11 and 14's subscription and launchers to make ff11 easier to get into.

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Originally Posted by LioJen

I think all you'd need is to combine the subs and launcher.

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One thought I've had quite a few times is that SE needs to drop the per title subscription system for a general SE Online subscription that covers all their online titles. Doing this could make it a little easier to bring Dragon Quest X outside of Japan since people playing FFXIV and/or FFXI wouldn't need to cover a second subscription. It would also likely give players more reason to keep their sub going as they can bounce around more than 1 title on it and also lay some groundwork for the eventuality that new online titles will launch in the future.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

One thought I've had quite a few times is that SE needs to drop the per title subscription system for a general SE Online subscription that covers all their online titles. Doing this could make it a little easier to bring Dragon Quest X outside of Japan since people playing FFXIV and/or FFXI wouldn't need to cover a second subscription. It would also likely give players more reason to keep their sub going as they can bounce around more than 1 title on it and also lay some groundwork for the eventuality that new online titles will launch in the future.

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Agreed, don't know why this hasn't been done yet other than SE being scared of losing current double-dippers. And really, how many of those could there be that wouldn't be compensated for by the amount of people who would keep their sub going for the other game when content dries up in one?

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

imo they should stop with jobs all together and add skill trees or professions. make jobs feel more dynamic

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Is this the first Final Fantasy game you've ever played? That's not how Final Fantasy works! That's never been how Final Fantasy works!

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Originally Posted by Korbei

Is this the first Final Fantasy game you've ever played? That's not how Final Fantasy works! That's never been how Final Fantasy works!

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Other FF games with Job systems have had us unlock our skills via job points without a linear sequence, the two that come to mind immediately are Tactics and X-2. More often than not, they also allow players to mix and match abilities and passives from one job onto another, so skill trees and custom playstyles aren't out of the question for the job system. If anything, XIV is the only one to make the job system incredibly paired back with no customization in favour of balance.

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

Other FF games with Job systems have had us unlock our skills via job points without a linear sequence, the two that come to mind immediately are Tactics and X-2. More often than not, they also allow players to mix and match abilities and passives from one job onto another, so skill trees and custom playstyles aren't out of the question for the job system. If anything, XIV is the only one to make the job system incredibly paired back with no customization in favour of balance.

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I don’t disagree, but the developers have spent pretty much the entire 10 years since ARR desperately chasing the balance dragon (that they’ll never catch). Something like skill trees in SE’s eyes would either be imbalanced in some way, or completely identical and thus a waste of resources.

Of course, one could argue that skill trees or other decisions around one’s job don’t inherently need to be completely unbalanced. But that would require them putting actual work into the game, which apparently is just too much now lol