Fishing, Its time to bring it in line with the other gathering jobs!!

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

You lost me at deciding for the group that the content isn't fun.

Fun is subjective.

If the content isn't fun for you, why in the world are you still engaging with it?

You don't get to decide to take away other players' fun just because you're not having any yourself.

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i feel like you misunderstood me :)
I do find it fun and i do enjoy it granted it can be incredibly frustrating at times, but i also know when something is broken and not fun for the majority and I'm not trying to take away anyone's fun, I'm trying to find out how to add more fun and be accessible to All :) hence why I'm trying to make a list of things everyone suggests.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

I think you may have the wrong temperament for big fishing. It is a minigame unto itself. It’s also one of the few evergreen pieces of content the game has, alongside ultimates.

Lone ripper has a weather requirement (gales) and the preferred bait is heavy steel jig iirc. Slap a lavender remora, chum as much as you can and only reel if you get a !!! Slap persists until you next catch a fish so the gp can go a long way.

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2 things firstly
1 thank you for reading the whole post :) the fact you acknowledge my strife with the stupid shark means a lot :)
2 thank you for the advice ill see if it helps me out today ( i use garlondbell so i only fish when its actually up so my time spent fishing for this git is 17 x 3 = 51 hours minimum on it as i have others to try and collect. novice numbers i know, but its not the worst offender in my book of stupid fish that refuse to be caught) :D

So I enjoy hunting the big fish, i really do, though no one believes me, hence why I'm still fishing for them (and that stupid shark) but in my time hunting i came to realise how absurd it could really get, there's no RNG protection so its a flat % chance on catching every time plus the rarity of the bite happening, plus times that by the amount of big fish in the game, and whilst that to me looks like a fun grind to work through, in reality the probability of me finishing it in the next two + years is slim, even with the time im able to sink into it, which is disgustingly more than most. for the sake of an example say the catch rate is 1% 0r 0.01 and the bite rate is 5% or 0.05 (we are gonna ignore time windows and other even more limiting factors) the chance of me actually landing a fish is about 6% or 0.0595% which hey isnt bad odds at all except, thats with literally unlimited time so start taking into account factor time limiting factors; mooching, weather, cast and fish time etc etc and suddenly that 6% starts shrinking more and more.
Now i dont want it to be easy theyre Legendary fish for a reason, so keep the bite rate wayyy down low keep us hunting for hours on end for a big fish, but at least make them land able if we are way over levelled, if its a level 90 fish, keep the low catch rate, its gonna be fighting jus as hard as i am, but if its below my level start giving me more of an advantage, i personally never want to see a 100% catch rate for legendary fish, but how it is now feel like its unbalanced and forgotten about.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

You don't need a bait box. Bait is cheap and easily got to only catch the ones you're actually going for at any given time. There is no point to keeping everything on hand.

As for timers, that's not something the game is supposed to be doing for you. That's something you need to do for yourself, hence the reason for 3rd party websites. If the game kept fish timers for you, that would reduce the difficulty and challenge of it all.

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interesting point about the bait an a fair one at that, but have you considered players like myself who go from big fish to big fish back to back repeatedly, and thus need to carry about a billion different baits at all times?

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Originally Posted by Autumn-Rain

2 things firstly…

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If you’re not already using them, these are pretty reasonable resources too:
Ffxivteamcraft; I find the way the fishing node data is presente there really easy to understand. It’s got bite times based on bait filter and is generally anything you could want to know.
Fishing discord/fishcord has pretty helpful people and generally is where new information first shows up.
Carbuncle plushy is a checklist that can be filtered to big fish, by window rarity and by expansion. It’s an easy way of seeing how many you have left. It’s also quite good at preventing you from tunnel visioning on a specific fish unless you’re down to a couple of dozen.

2 years should be more than enough. Honestly for 95%+ completion you could probably knock it out in under a month, but I don’t think I’d recommend that. Or to put it another way, if you can get ealad skaan, cinder surprise and ruby dragon you’re mostly just cleaning up. Honourable mention to sea butterfly and charibert. I also think your maths is a bit off there, you don’t seem to be accounting for number of attempts. If you’re looking at a fish with a 1% bite rate, log(0.99)^(0.5)* says you’ll need about 69 casts to have half a chance of seeing a bite. I’m not sure if there’s any fish that low before modifiers - chari and sea butt maybe? But I wouldn’t want to rob anyone of the catharsis from catching them through nerfing their difficulty. There’s also fish at the other end of the scale like unconditional and moggle mogpom where you can filter it down to literally just them during their window, so the difficulty is in having them stay on the line or window rarity.

(*it’s been a while, I think that was the correct sum)

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Originally Posted by Sindele

The adversity of big fishing is the entire point of big fishing. It is not meant to be simple and trivial precisely because there are no consequences for it being an unkind challenge - there is nothing gated behind it and no reason to do it save to chase achievements and say that you've done it. And for a certain type of player.. that's exactly what makes it appealing.

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Why do MMO players have such a hardon for having their time wasted and being jerked around by bad systems? Bad design isn't suddenly not bad design because you managed to win either through bugging out the boss, using an exploit or sheer dumb luck after hundreds of hours. That's not an accomplishment or triumph. That's just you coping and simping. "Hard content" that is skilled based or you have a way to deterministically overcome by getting improving as a player, getting better gear, or deepening your understanding of the game's mechanics is good and welcomed. Hunting big fish is none of these things.

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Originally Posted by Sir_Tonberry

"Hard content" that is skilled based or you have a way to deterministically overcome by getting improving as a player, getting better gear, or deepening your understanding of the game's mechanics is good and welcomed. Hunting big fish is none of these things.

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fffriend fishing is the best designed content in the game. Literally the whole point of the fishing kit is to allow you the ability to reduce the impact of RNG.

I'll take the sarcastic stance that ultimates are bad design because you managed to win win through using exploits/unintended solutions to mechanics or sheer dumb luck after hundreds of hours. That's not an accomplishment or triumph, that's just coping and simping.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

fffriend fishing is the best designed content in the game. Literally the whole point of the fishing kit is to allow you the ability to reduce the impact of RNG.

I'll take the sarcastic stance that ultimates are bad design because you managed to win win through using exploits/unintended solutions to mechanics or sheer dumb luck after hundreds of hours. That's not an accomplishment or triumph, that's just coping and simping.

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Firstly I'm not your friend. Also you can increase your odds of clearing ultimate and any fight by getting BIS for that fight, learning the fight, altering your rotation or playing a job that is better suited for downtime/uptime demands of that particular encounter using food, using pots. Clearing ultimate 100% of the time is due to factors that are within your control 100% of the time. You can get a cursed pattern for something like meteors in DSR and still overcome it through sheer knowledge of the game. No amount of skill and ability in fishing will give you a fish if the game decides you're not getting the fish. Comparing raiding to fishing and particularly rare fish and big fish even in a "sarcastic" point is so hilarious that it borders on pathetic.

Big words from someone who has the title but mysteriously no record for even savage.

I wish fisher just had more knick knack kind of stuff it can get like some minions and crafting items in the past
Tiny Tatsunoko,Waterproof Cotton Cloth,Castaway chocobo,magic bucket etc etc.
It would be cool if you could fish up like a mount or something like that shark boss in anemisis anyder or some octopus mount

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Originally Posted by fulminating

Big words from someone who has the title but mysteriously no record for even savage.

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I mean they're half-right in that there's only a certain degree of control that you have over whether you actually catch the fish or not. However, there are a lot of elements that are within your control, especially with skill usage when you look at catching something like Ku'er for the Ruby Dragon by pre-paring the window so you can maximize Makeshift Bait (Doesn't cancel mooching opportunity, by the way), or just generally optimizing how many tugs you can get per window. Whether this is through understanding the tug timers of the fish in the hole that you're doing e.g., if a big fish hooks in the first 13 seconds of a tug with chum, then you know that keeping your rod out beyond that mark is wasting time. Or by something as simple as making sure you don't screw up the eggs for catching Cinder Surprise, e.g., making sure you catch your 9th egg with Identical Cast up.

Is it to the same degree, not really. But there is still quite a lot of nuance and understanding of fishing, the abilities, tug timers, etc., to maximizing your chances of catching the fish. To say that big fishing does not incorporate an element of a deeper understanding of the game to maximize these chances or to be successful at the very least is ignorant at best.

Most people severely underestimate the point of big fishing and most importantly why people engage in it.