this raid tier is the worst yet

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Originally Posted by Marxam

i feel like this thread is just a rant on how bad p10s is. I find it easy but getting 7 other ppl who can do that in PF is the real challenge. I've been stuck on enrage since week 1 and its always because we use up an LB or ppl die here and there. I would be more tilted but the glamour this tier is garbage and looks like something you got from the last 24 man raid.

Regardless this shows how bad PF really is and its not helped by the fact that data center travel basically ruined savage raiding on some servers outright.

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I'm just being honest: If you are still stuck on p10 enrage since week 1, it's not the fight or PF that's stopping you

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

whoever thought savage needs constant body checks needs to be put in a straightjacket and locked away for a very long time

people say this makes the raids more """difficult""", and i will concede that it does make them far more artificially difficult. artificial difficulty isn't fun, because you're only as good as your weakest link and you can play your best but one person's mistake punishes everybody with a wipe

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Skill Issue

P11s is boring though.

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Originally Posted by EderTheBro

And thereby denying players any form of skill expression in relation to triage.

The game is already trending towards a place where even in prog the only valuable skill is optimizing damage and following raidplan.io, we don't need to remove other skill expressions even more.

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I think it's just different visions for what the developers want the game to be.

Usual disclaimer that I know this is subjective / might be "looking back with tinted glasses" / etc, but...

I feel like older Savage designs were more about creating an experience with a lot of potential paths out of it, and a lot of interesting and unique ways of approaching that — like I think all four floors of Creator were very creative and memorable encounter designs, and eg, Sigmascape, felt like it had a lot of different ways to get from Point A to Point Z depending on strategies, comps, and how-and-what "went wrong" in a given pull.

And the modern Savage design is trying to create more of an "arcade" experience, where what you need to do is more clear, strict, and direct; you just reboot if you do it wrong; the overall experience is meant to be "quicker" and "more efficient"; and the fact that the boss has HP is mostly just to serve as a method of giving the encounter a timeframe to completion, and to provide the player a sense that the buttons they're pressing are "doing something".

...But then again, my selective memory may just be glossing over things like Chadarnook and the realities of Refurbisher, lol.

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Originally Posted by RaionKansen

P11s is boring though.

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Actually yeah, what happened to "floor 3s".

I know this is entirely-subjective, but it feels like "Floor 3" used to be more... memorable? Something that built linear momentum and complexity as you worked towards the final floor of a tier — stuff like CC, Halicarnassus, Guardian, Omega.

Then somehow "Floor 3" has become repositioned into a weirdly-rote, drawn-out snoozefest, while "Floor 2" has sometimes (but not consistently) taken over the old "Floor 3" role as the "ahhh, ahhh, ahhhhhhh" fight.

I'm not saying that everything has to be akin to (crosses body) Shadowkeeper's "Bill & Ted's Spatial Reasoning Adventure", but I am a little confused by why "Floor 3" has started to frequently become a prolonged "going through the motions because I want pants" experience.

savage and raid design has been stale for years. bosses do the same 50 mechanics in a row on a timeline for 10 min with the one or 2 wipe mechs if anyone is dead.

I am surprised they still call it a raid while it is just a glorified mini-trial while Alex was the last actual 8man raid.