Current problems with machinist and being constructive.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Or just.. Have Bio ignite into a second dot when hit by flamethrower..

The real issues with the job are its damage vs utility.

You get a single raidwide defensive
Dancer gets a raidwide defensive, party buffs, single target buff(dance) and a 20% crit/DH buff for dance partner and an aoe heal.
Bard gets a raidwide defensive, party buffs (Songs), Additional raid utility for tanks (20% bonus healing that pairs INSANELY well with SCH shield deployment) AND a 20% DH buff for the entire party.

MCH:
Tactician

Dancer:
Shield Samba
Technical Finish
Standard Finish
Devilment
Curing Waltz

Bard:
Troubador
Songs (Wanderer's Minuet, Mage's Ballad, Army's Paeon)
The Wardens Paeon
Battle Voice
Radiant Finale

See a trend here?

Each ranged job gets ~5 party utility abilities, where as MCH just gets a single defensive.

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Yeah, that's actually a thing I find strange, but I never really tried arguing about it because I only ever played MCH in E5S, looooong ago. I'm no expert on MCH.
They don't buff MCH to be as strong as other more selfish DPS, because it's a Ranged Physical DPS and thus has mobility. It doesn't have anywhere near as much utility, so it does more damage than the other two Ranged Phys. But it doesn't do enough damage to justify their inclusion. You'd sooner take Dancer and Bard for their utility than MCH because odds are your buffs will make other people's DPS higher overall than bringing a MCH, you're also contributing to overall survivability.

Had they at least given MCH some offensive buffs or debuffs. Like old Hypercharge used to do. But instead they just give the class burst power on a role typically defined by utility.

Is it because they don't know how to balance it? Is it because they don't know what else they can make utility for? We probably don't know :x

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Bard:
Troubador
Songs (Wanderer's Minuet, Mage's Ballad, Army's Paeon)
The Wardens Paeon
Battle Voice
Radiant Finale

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Nature's Minne is the healing buff. The Warden's Paean is actually the oGCD Esuna, and you can even pre-cast it to give the target a shield that blocks the next cleansable status effect. It doesn't get used very often because SE just absolutely hates giving out status effects that can be removed, but if there are some tankbusters out there tossing Doom on the Tanks like in Delubrum Reginae? Yeah, sure, Paean stonks go up when you can just toss that out and save the Healer a GCD. Maybe one day SE will turn it into an actual shield that can block damage because God knows we aren't gonna get more status effects. Most I've used Paean this expac is to ignore the Doom debuff from the gaze attack by the second boss in Fell Court of Troia.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Yeah, that's actually a thing I find strange, but I never really tried arguing about it because I only ever played MCH in E5S, looooong ago. I'm no expert on MCH.
They don't buff MCH to be as strong as other more selfish DPS, because it's a Ranged Physical DPS and thus has mobility. It doesn't have anywhere near as much utility, so it does more damage than the other two Ranged Phys. But it doesn't do enough damage to justify their inclusion. You'd sooner take Dancer and Bard for their utility than MCH because odds are your buffs will make other people's DPS higher overall than bringing a MCH, you're also contributing to overall survivability.

Had they at least given MCH some offensive buffs or debuffs. Like old Hypercharge used to do. But instead they just give the class burst power on a role typically defined by utility.

Is it because they don't know how to balance it? Is it because they don't know what else they can make utility for? We probably don't know :x

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The problem is they are scared of what happened at the end of ShB when MCH could absolutely destroy most DPS with zero effort.
it scales incredibly well as gear gets better, if anything they should just increase the base potency of the combo actions by 20-30pot each

It weird how they do a rework, make it much simpler and easier to play, but then still can't balance it right..
I bet its really demotivating to wanna do Ex or Raids and prob soon the new Criterion dungeons and get excluded as a MCH.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

The problem is they are scared of what happened at the end of ShB when MCH could absolutely destroy most DPS with zero effort.
it scales incredibly well as gear gets better, if anything they should just increase the base potency of the combo actions by 20-30pot each

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Where are you getting that from, MCH was the weakest DPS for both patches of edens promise

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Where are you getting that from, MCH was the weakest DPS for both patches of edens promise

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The point is that you can finish all the savage content with machinist which required less effort and skill, easier to use and to teach, why bring black mage and samurai with their more complicated combo and harder to master, if you can just bring machinist and simply use 6 button whatever they can be clicked, less thinking and you can focus more on mechanic

/sarcasm mode ON

MCH role is not Prange dps. You all got it wrong. With most its utility been axed away, meaningless skills, and over all poor performances, it's obvious that in the grand scheme of balancing, MCH REAL role is to make all the other classes shine.

/sarcasm mode OFF

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Once again... none of this is a reason against buffing Machinist.
It does not need to be buffed to SAM/BLM levels! It just needs to be able to compete with BRD and DNC.
Buffing Machinist by a couple percent to bring it up to a level where you are not so severely punished for playing MCH will not suddenly invalidate BRD and DNC.
You keep arguing in extremes, there's tons of middle ground.

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I never said you couldn't buff Machinist though. Frankly, it does still need one regardless of what they do.

My whole response was saying that buffing it won't fix the issue because even with a slight increase, it'll still do less than Bard and Dancer at the high end. The way SE has set up the Prange, a selfish job in that role simply cannot work. Bard and Dancer provide too much rDPS relative to their aDPS for Machinist to ever come out ahead outside of average PG groups. They need to either rework Bard and Dancer to have more personal damage ala what they did with Ninja or scrap the whole selfish DPS concept for Machinist and let the Prange be support DPS again. No amount of buffing Machinist will fix the root problem.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

Oh nah HW Gauss Barrel gave you more damage at the cost of forcing you to cast when you didn't have ammo.

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Wait... is that so?! How in Thal's balls they managed to turn that into SB Gauss Barrel? ._.

Kupo <3 they should add a side-job like smn/sch and make a chemist healer option. No cast times kupo just shoot and toss potions everywhere FFT style <3 kupo