REVERT SAM TO 6.08

This thread really should be moved to the DPS subforum.

When WHM players were complaining about the Lily system going into Stormblood, all redundant threads were moved and consolidated down. But I suppose there was less toxic behavior back then as well because the ToS around player conduct was enforced. It's unfortunate that this sort of brigading behavior isn't also addressed under the ToS, and perhaps it should be raised as an issue in the next Live Letter Q+A.

Haha thats funny! Tell another one! There was less toxic behaviour years ago, sure..

It's true. You actually weren't even allowed to use profanity in here, because of the player conduct section of the ToS (although that's still technically true in game). There was a running joke on Reddit for a while that everyone had prior infractions on the Official Forums that precluded them from posting in here.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

It's true. You actually weren't even allowed to use profanity in here, because of the player conduct section of the ToS (although that's still technically true in game). There was a running joke on Reddit for a while that everyone had prior infractions on the Official Forums that precluded them from posting in here.

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And yet here you are, trying to gatekeep people from using forums saying they are not "high quality"; distinctly remember you coming into a SAM thread in the DPS subforums to whine about that specifically. Interesting how that behavior is "allowed" :)

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Originally Posted by Yandere-chan

Insert garbage take

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Can you point me to a youtube video, reddit post, discord message, or a piece of content where somebody in detail explains why the SAM 6.01 changes are good? Emphasis on detailed, not "SAM is fine, the end". Because I have yet to see this. In fact I see the opposite. Don't say "well people don't talk about good changes" because everyone was singing up a storm DRK Bloodweapon and Living Dead changes in a positive tone to the same prevalence of people complaining about SAM 6.01 changes.

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Originally Posted by AsiTsurugi

?????

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No, I'm saying the exact same thing that I always have on this issue. Let me make it clear for you.

The DPS subforum is a mess right now because nobody is able to post in there except for the SAM brigade. Anything that's not a SAM thread gets rapidly scrolled off the first page by all the duplicate Kaiten/'I'm angry'/'I'm still posting two weeks after my screenshotted unsubscribe date' threads. Anyone who even looks like they might disagree gets harassed, verbally abused, and is subjected to a background check. It just makes your whole case a lot less sympathetic, and nobody wants to post in there because everyone can see all the brigading nastiness that is coming from a very controlling and very vocal group. Which is the opposite of what should be the case in a forum like this. People should be able to have a discussion.

If they return to the level of moderation that was present in late Stormblood/early Shadowbringers, this would be cleaned up faster than you could blink. I think it's just worth flagging it to the senior dev members' attention, because the discussion around brigades itself is extremely topical post-DSR release, and they do take bullying and harassment extremely seriously (at least when they do take action). I think the balance needs to shift back closer to what it was historically. And if that means that the most negative response that you can offer is 'Nice Job!', then so be it.

Either way, if your group was hurling profanity at 'healer mains' to exclude them from SAM threads on the basis that the conversation was for 'DPS only', then it's only right that we also keep all the SAM threads contained within the DPS subforum.

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

I leveled Sam after the change and felt like I had to push Shinten after every attack to not overcap.
It was not engaging or fun and just felt spammy ^^"
It got old really fast for me, so I get why main Samurai's are upset about it..
I don't care for Sam at all, but even I felt like it was missing some depth.

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Yeah, that missing depth is the hole where Kaiten used to be. Removed because the job design team found it too "restrictive" to work with.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

The DPS subforum is a mess right now because nobody is able to post in there except for the SAM brigade. Anything that's not a SAM thread gets rapidly scrolled off the first page by all the duplicate Kaiten/'I'm angry'/'I'm still posting two weeks after my screenshotted unsubscribe date' threads.

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Are you viewing the forums on an old 800x600 monitor from the 70's or something? There are at least a dozen non-SAM threads on the front page right now. And if you had ever bothered to check any of the SAM threads you'd know that there is a larger undercurrent that is pushing for change not just to SAM and other DPS jobs but also to re-evaluate the direction that tanks and healers have been going. So get out of here with the "back in my day we WHM's got moved to the healer forum uphill both ways in the snow!" crap. The issue at hand is much larger than simply SAM.

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Originally Posted by ryouma17

sam is perfect the way it currently is

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Your SAM sits at lvl 81, how could you possibly know that without having played it at max level in any current content?
Please just stop, this is why we get dogshit changes...

I've only started leveling SAM recently, what is the big deal with this change? I haven't looked into it at all. Not implying it isn't a problem, just asking generally.