Third party tools are a game design failing in a multi-platform game

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Originally Posted by Johners

More importantly, the third party tool discussion also applies to actual slam dunk cheating. People using automation bots for gathering, people using cheats in PvP, people using plugins to show AoE markers that you otherwise wouldn't see in high-end duties. There's speed and teleport hacks also. We've seen a big rise in the quality and quantity of all these tools in the last year, if left unmoderated it'll only negatively impacts the game more.

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Then maybe SE should focus actual cheaters instead of people who use simple QoL UI tweaks?

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Following on from above, it's also entirely unmoderated across the entire player base from Square Enix and as these tools improve, there's an entire chunk of the player base that'll just be at a bigger and bigger disadvantage from not wanting or being able to use them.

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How can one not want improved UI and getting more useful information?

Johners: SE should stop people from hacking and cheating
Also Johners: SE should waste all their time banning people for using UI tweaks and Parsers just because I can't use them, instead of using that time and effort to ban people who hack and cheat

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Originally Posted by SwingLifeAway

Johners: SE should stop people from hacking and cheating
Also Johners: SE should waste all their time banning people for using UI tweaks and Parsers just because I can't use them, instead of using that time and effort to ban people who hack and cheat

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Also also Johners: Square Enix have basically no tools to detect the majority of third-party tool usage in this game regardless of it being slam-dunk cheating or random QoL UI stuff

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Originally Posted by Johners

Accessibility issues are a problem across the entire game industry but some of the options you see in single player games simply can't be applied in a multiplayer game. There's always going to be less accessibility in online games even if there's more Square Enix could always be doing. People mention P3S a lot and from what I can see, it's probably something they tweak to make more accessible and I'm surprised they've not done so already.

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Accessibility problems are problems, yes? A slew of plug-ins help solve the problem, yes? Why remove a temporary solution to this problem, so that people can enjoy a game, without affecting you just because "well, see, games? They have bad accessibility, you know." Like what kind of response is that? You are, also aware that SE's reason for even making UI updates -- as noted in their own post about this -- was to... look at popular UI plug-ins, which directly shows how developing and using plug-ins for people who want certain UI features can directly translate into them being actually developed into the base game, which nullifies your entire second point about console parity... you do understand that, yes?

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The problem lies in the game client being an entire free-for-all in terms of third party functions and there's no parity for all supported platforms. I believe macOS has most of the plugins Windows has but PlayStation users are entirely excluded from this. There's a duty upon Square Enix to ensure all players have access to the same game.

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Aside from what was mentioned above, you do also realize it is literally impossible to create genuine parity for any game in general, right? Someone playing on Comcast and d/cing every hour isn't exactly having the same experience as someone who isn't. Someone playing on a tube TV from the 90's isn't having the same experience. Someone on a laptop isn't having the same experience and so on. This is point is kind of just... useless to me, and to anyone, who can consider that hardware imparity will always exist no matter what you do, and the software imparity with plug-ins is already being addressed by the company due to the popularity of some plug-ins... which is a direct benefit to console players, anyway. It's such a non-point as the goal posts for it can always be moved somewhere else as there isn't an actual solution to it. If it's not software, it's hardware. If it's not either, it's your ISP. So on.

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More importantly, the third party tool discussion also applies to actual slam dunk cheating. People using automation bots for gathering, people using cheats in PvP, people using plugins to show AoE markers that you otherwise wouldn't see in high-end duties. There's speed and teleport hacks also. We've seen a big rise in the quality and quantity of all these tools in the last year, if left unmoderated it'll only negatively impacts the game more.

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And when they go this far, SE should ban for cheating in these cases. Using a plug-in to help with the colors in the game isn't exactly cheating, nor is using ACT, nor is using a "pick what song to listen to" thing. It's not actually difficult to see what is and isn't cheating, to be frank. What is difficult is proving it (and they have an entirely separate team that handles Botting, supposedly, which isn't the GM team). The biggest thing with cheating is that it does directly impact others' experiences.

Someone using Cactbot for callouts doesn't affect me in any way, shape or form.

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Following on from above, it's also entirely unmoderated across the entire player base from Square Enix and as these tools improve, there's an entire chunk of the player base that'll just be at a bigger and bigger disadvantage from not wanting or being able to use them.

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The disadvantage won't actually matter, at all, provided SE actually:

- Bans things that are actual cheats.
- Doesn't design around plug-ins.
- Introduce and provide the options they see as popular, like they already said they are looking at doing as a direct result of plug-in usage.

Because, right now, this reads a lot as: "PC players have access to a plethora of UI tools that make their experience with the game better, and yet the console player is left without. Therefore, the solution here is to ban all the things PC players enjoy and use to tailor their experience to themselves, and pray to God SE actually makes UI development choices that players want/need and not another Duty Recorder."

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Originally Posted by Alaray

Because, right now, this reads a lot as: "PC players have access to a plethora of UI tools that make their experience with the game better, and yet the console player is left without. Therefore, the solution here is to ban all the things PC players enjoy and use to tailor their experience to themselves, and pray to God SE actually makes UI development choices that players want/need and not another Duty Recorder."

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It's literally crab mentality. But of course the experience of other people is far less important than my own..

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

How can one not want improved UI and getting more useful information?

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Adding markers on the heads of enemies in CS. UI tweak only, right? Why people concider it cheating, it is just a UI giving you more info, how can you be against it, the data is already there, the enemy exists behind the wall after all, why not give you this information?

And I am not against quality of life changes, but doing so with addons, because some of the "tweaks" were actually giving them advantage in performance, the main reason they were uing them.

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Originally Posted by Grebeny

Adding markers on the heads of enemies in CS. UI tweak only, right? Why people concider it cheating, it is just a UI giving you more info, how can you be against it, the data is already there, the enemy exists behind the wall after all, why not give you this information?

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Ah yes, comparing an MMORPG UI to a FPS, what a fair and reasonable comparison you have made

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Originally Posted by Alaray

I can't think of a Plug-In someone was using that interfered with my own, personal, game experience. I can, however; think of plug-ins that make some encounters possible to do - for the sake of my color blindness - without needing someone to verbally guide my movement.

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Can you give an example, we had color blind person in my static for an year and he never had issues with any mechanic. He was just asking us to not use terms like "purple, red chain", but call them straight, donut and so on as he was looking for the pictures instead of the colors.

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Originally Posted by Grebeny

Adding markers on the heads of enemies in CS. UI tweak only, right? Why people concider it cheating, it is just a UI giving you more info, how can you be against it, the data is already there, the enemy exists behind the wall after all, why not give you this information?

And I am not against quality of life changes, but doing so with addons, because some of the "tweaks" were actually giving them advantage in performance, the main reason they were uing them.

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Why did you bring CS into this? To fit what narrative? What does wallhack in CS have anything to do with UI tweaks for QoL in 14?

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Originally Posted by Grebeny

Can you give an example, we had color blind person in my static for an year and he never had issues with any mechanic. He was just asking us to not use terms like "purple, red chain", but call them straight, donut and so on as he was looking for the pictures instead of the colors.

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God Kefka (Trine), Gaia Pt2 (Hourglass), Zodiark (Snakes).

Can you provide relevant examples to FFXIV and not CS:GO?