6.1 Samurai: the Kaiten removal was the right choice but it's not enough

I half agree with OP, I think the devs have an overhaul planned for SAM and decided to implement mechanical changes in order to prepare for that. However in doing so the basically demolished a building everyone liked, and put up a sign that says "beautiful park coming soon" so now we all just get to stare at rubble since none if us here know what the final vision might be. At least SAM in pvp feels like an absolute monster to play!

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Originally Posted by SkyEdge1

I half agree with OP, I think the devs have an overhaul planned for SAM and decided to implement mechanical changes in order to prepare for that. However in doing so the basically demolished a building everyone liked, and put up a sign that says "beautiful park coming soon" so now we all just get to stare at rubble since none if us here know what the final vision might be. At least SAM in pvp feels like an absolute monster to play!

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You better pray Yoshi P does not have an overhaul prepared for sam. Take a hard look at every class that has had an overhaul of changes or rework. It is more like they demolished a building everybody like and put sign up that says "new dump opens 2024".

Loosing kaiten is nothing but a slap on the hand compared to most classes that got an iron paddle.

It's not about hope, during the live letter reading it was stated that they found new ability design for SAM was becoming difficult and one of the reasons was Kaiten in its current form. To be very clear I don't like the changes, but I understand what OP is saying. The simple fact is none of us are FFXIV devs and SAM players were handed a big old "please look forward to it" without any clarity as to why a job no one asked to be changed was changed the way they did.

The only way you can support the removal of Kaiten is if they replaced it with a different skill that also utilizes Kenki or adds some form of complexity to the class, except they didn't do that.

Kaiten was what added complexity to the Samurai and now that it's gone, the class feels bare bones.

The developers said they felt restricted with Kaiten in the game. If that's the case.... they should only remove Kaiten when they have new skills to replace it, but they didn't do that either. They just outright removed it.

Reading OP's post gave me an aneurism.

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Originally Posted by SkyEdge1

It's not about hope, during the live letter reading it was stated that they found new ability design for SAM was becoming difficult and one of the reasons was Kaiten in its current form. To be very clear I don't like the changes, but I understand what OP is saying. The simple fact is none of us are FFXIV devs and SAM players were handed a big old "please look forward to it" without any clarity as to why a job no one asked to be changed was changed the way they did.

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Yeah, they said the same thing about SCH and they haven't touched the job much since ShB, other than the obligatory nerf. A "rework" at this point means ripping out the job's heart and leaving it a husk. Next thing you know, FFXIV becomes a spin off of the Kingdom Hearts series

I agree. IMO SAM needs to be reworked into something like WHM where you have a DOT and a single button to do damage. Pressing too many buttons is just the absolute worst and makes for gameplay that is too hard for me.

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Originally Posted by CapricaLangley

Kaiten was basically useless from a game design and gameplay perspective. If you use something every single time before a specific skill, it's better to just remove it. In my opinion it was a good "flavour" skill but clearly unnecessary when taking into account the whole rotation.

Personally I loved the skill animation, but what I loved even more was SAM identity as a big burst class with combos. That's why I think the real problem is that now SAM feels like a solid combo class with small bursts. I'm strongly against class homogenization (if you check my history you can see how long ago i started a big thread on that particular matter) but I think the Kaiten removal is not the culprit this time. I'm worried that a lot of players are framing Kaiten as a scapegoat for this particular identity loss.

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Calling Kaiten "useless" while Tsubame-Gaeshi is still there being even MORE flavorless and parasitic.

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Originally Posted by RushBee

I agree. IMO SAM needs to be reworked into something like WHM where you have a DOT and a single button to do damage. Pressing too many buttons is just the absolute worst and makes for gameplay that is too hard for me.

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Honestly 2 buttons is still a bit too much bloat. Can we implement a system where we can pick a trust AI to play for us? I shouldn’t be expected to have to play a video game in the year 2022. Even this is too much work IMO but I’m willing to compromise, frankly I find ‘gameplay’ to be such an outdated concept for video games, why not just scrap it all and just show us what you want us to see instead! Skip all this cumbersome ‘gameplay’.
Please look forward to it.

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Originally Posted by RushBee

I agree. IMO SAM needs to be reworked into something like WHM where you have a DOT and a single button to do damage. Pressing too many buttons is just the absolute worst and makes for gameplay that is too hard for me.

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I don't get why you all seem to feel the need to mock me. I'm not a paladin of over-simplification nor I have ever mentioned ability or button bloat. Let's discuss: a lot of people in here stated the reasons why they think Kaiten was useful and impactful.

Personally since I opened the thread i started to change my mind just by confronting my opinion with the rest of the job playerbase: I found out that a lot of people loved the flavour aspect of the skill, and I agree with the fact that Tsubbame Gaeshi is even more useless than I thought Kaiten was.

I don't understand what's the matter behind that form of bullying that rules in the official forums.