Think We'll get the Other Elemental Egi for SMN next Expansion?

My brain is smol, so some things kind of don't make sense to me here... But basically, all the primals are greatly important to the tribes and people they summon. Whether it be the Amaljaa worshipping Ifrit or the Heretics and Ysayle worshipping Shiva. If in-game, any of these people had any concerns for us summoning their sacred deity or patron for use in the defence of others and etc, they would have said so a long time ago. Especially characters like Tiamat and Alasie and Alphinaud, since we summon their former living loved ones incarnations on a daily basis for whatever we are doing that day.

Plus....I don't think Summoner in Final Fantasy would be Summoner without it having in its possession every summon that corresponds with one of the elements existing in their respective games. At least, I think the previous FF games covered each element with a summon that represents them. I don't know, it's been awhile since I played the other ones, lol!

Overall, I just want to see more summons and I don't want any one of them restricted from us for any lore reason. Remember, if we can summon Phoenix, the most one off summon in the entire game, then we should be able to summon the rest of the primals at some point within the game.

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

For the record, that "elemental wheel" showcased the aspects in their natural (read: default) states.
Wind/Fire/Lightning are active in their natural states, while Earth/Ice/Water are passive in their natural states.
But really, depending on the circumstances (including external manipulation) any aspect can be found and/or used in either state (see: Umbral Winds or Umbral Static for weather examples).

Anyways, and on topic...I've been waiting for nearly 7 YEARS for them to add new Egis (and now "gemstone" summons), and I think it's waaay past time they (finally) did something about them.

The earlier, the better. Like, during the course of Endwalker earlier (i.e. 6.x).

And preferably through a (revamped) Egi glamour system based on their new "gemstone" forms.
Better yet: also including the Rite(s)/Catastrophe(s) of the remaining elements.

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

1) The elements that correspond to BLM and WHM do not align with the elemental wheel's categorization of "astral" and "umbral" or "light" and "dark" elements. Water, earth, and ice are "umbral" and wind, fire, and lightning are "astral". At the same time none of these categorizations align with the three conquests or submissions. *AND* at the same time ice is most aligned with light and lightning with darkness, which is the exact opposite of WHM/BLM.

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Thanks for the correction, you two! Lmao, I completely got the elemental wheel wrong, how the hell did I even do that!? Stupid brain was waaaaaay off the mark there. x'3

I'll make the corrections to the front page in a bit!

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

Ramuh is treated as more of a character than Ifrit/Titan/Garuda, with a tendency toward passivity and negotiation.

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I don't see Ramuh having more of a personnality than any other primal, it got the personnality his tribe thought he would have when they summoned him.
The same way Garuda is insane because the Ixali believe her to be since in their lore she ate the king of snake which drove her crazy.
And Garuda is more proactive in the main story than Ramuh, as she tries to have the Ixali bring her Amalj'aa and Kobold so she could absorb Ifrit and Titan's power.
Also at one point in the 1.0 we had to go try to negotiate with the Amalj'aa, and you ended up having a chat with Ifrit that told you "Forsooth, thy frail mortal frame can serve as vessel to the blessing of but One. Yet I smell not the taint of another upon thee...The truth of thine allegiance waxeth clear—thou art of the godless blessed's number." already hinting about Hydealyn. Which I would say had more implications than anything Ramuh did.

I personally really couldn’t care less, I already have pet size set to small and spell effect’s limited to be able to see anything in fights. I truly doubt anyone is still playing without pet size small, and to the people that do not know about that command I truly want to apologize by blocking there views with huge ass summons.

I personally would like some more options for the permanent carbuncle.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

The most logical progression for Summoner moving forward is another round of elemental summons after Phoenix, almost assuredly Shiva/Leviathan/Ramuh unless we go to Meracydia in 7.0, in which case they would likely give Sophia/Zurvan/Sephirot. Summoner has continued to receive at least 1 new summon since Stormblood, and I do not forsee them breaking that trend in the future especially now that the class has returned to the focus of summon magic.

I also fully support your idea to someday add in the ability to summon Hydaelyn and Zodiark in the future, I envision Hydaelyn specifically as being able to "sunder" a single target for high damage while Zodiark would perform some kind of AoE attack. Additional summons I'd like to see include the much-requested demi-Alexander, and perhaps demi-Odin as both could be summoned back in FFXI.

With that being said, I do not believe it should be a goal to "appease" old SMN players who favored the horrific systems of old SMN. If people still miss that job they need to move on already or submit their ideas for future job concepts instead of trying to bring back awful mechanics like the old trances/dot interactions/and "ruin stacking" for goodness sake. One thing is complexity, another thing is irrelevant busywork that only serves to cover up for the fact that the class was on the road to nowhere for the past 8 years until it abruptly corrected course and gained an actual focus.

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I recall the last time they ever talked about additional Egis in a Live Letter, they showed artwork on paper of a Ramuh, and Sephirot Egis but the ideas were clearly scrapped. The Sephirot egi was just the minion used in the Sephirot fight and the Ramuh Egi was the same but of the small Arbiter adds. They didn't show artwork for Leviathan but mentioned he was on the list. Wish I knew which live letter it was from but it's definitely a pretty old Stormblood one.

I always wanted an Odin summon personally.

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Originally Posted by Remish

I always wanted an Odin summon personally.

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I always imagined the dev team designing Odin to just be a Trance state because of how Odin in XIV is the blade, rather than the body it possesses.

Either way, I hope we get him someday, too! It's a real shame we never got to see the real him again after he escaped Gridanian custody waaaaay back in ARR. I hope he pops up again somewhere after Endwalker. :)

Realistically, no, probably not. In a perfect world, everything SMN has now would be dropped all the way down to level 50, 60 at the latest, but that still leaves a ton of levels to fill in. I would agree that what might work best is having Bahamut and Phoenix rotate summon gems so you're using different primals after each phase. You could conceivably argue that more summons would just be eye candy if they don't do anything different, but... I kinda think that's maybe an ok state for SMN. Who cares if summoning Sephirot works exactly the same as summoning Titan? That's honestly kinda the core of summoning, historically...

As for Shiva that keeps coming up, I'd say skip it, for multiple reasons. For one, there's plenty more to choose from, even if she is iconic. Two, I don't think it's worth holding SMN to ARR primals long long after they've passed on to further expansions. In my head, I don't see the possibility of summoning Shiva happening until after 60 at the earliest, which... would kinda work story-wise-ish, but at that point why not draw from HW primals or even StB depending on how late new summons happen. Final point, I still agree with withholding her due to story/lore, and I don't agree that Phoenix is a good counterargument. Phoenix is relegated to side content scarcely mentioned if at all through the story. Phoenix is similarly iconic, and doesn't stand out so much to see SMN utilizing. Shiva would stand out too much to players still progressing HW. That said... honestly it still could probably easily be worked in with proper quest lore or something... Which honestly is probably one of the bigger hurdles for further revamps and level shifts of skills. They're not going back to redo the quests, so there's going to continue being further disconnect..

In conclusion, wouldn't object to seeing ARR primals, but only if they shift everything down by a lot and new stuff comes in around the 60s or so. Adding ARR primals after level 90 would just be a waste of all the other options we have at that point. I don't really expect to see core functionality of the job changing too much, but I could probably enjoy seeing a "demi-summon, three egi, different demi, different three, different demi, different three" pattern. It might still turn out boring and mechanically bare, but it'd be flashy..

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Originally Posted by XmissionsX

I personally really couldn’t care less, I already have pet size set to small and spell effect’s limited to be able to see anything in fights. I truly doubt anyone is still playing without pet size small, and to the people that do not know about that command I truly want to apologize by blocking there views with huge ass summons.

I personally would like some more options for the permanent carbuncle.

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I still use default summon sizes, and yes, I know the pet size command. I like my primals full sized. They honestly don't bother me in the slightest. Titan's fat posterior has never gotten me killed. Now, Titan's big blinding glowy explosion *has* but that's unrelated to primal size.

Just sayin, there *are* people out there like me, plenty of them I'm sure, who appreciates the aesthetic design of EW SMN, and would love to get more.

If your argument for gatekeeping Shiva from Summoners has anything to do with lore, I'm not interested in reading it. It didn't work for gatekeeping things like flying cars and male Viera, and it isn't going to work out here. Again, we're sick of being held back, Fun > lore. Whether they are functionally unique or glamour options, just give us more summons. End of story.

And for the record I also use my summons at max size, don't plan on going small anytime soon.

I just don’t understand the adamant desire for the remaining ARR primal when there is a wide array of different ones they can use. Shiva should just belong to Ysayle. Give me something unexpected. Give me Susano.