Summoner rework is a huge dissapointment

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Originally Posted by Bacillus

I really think that we need a Dot, a single one, everyone has a Dot.

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Everyone aside from WAR, RPR, DNC and RDM, you mean.
Also, SMN still (technically) has a DoT through Garuda's Slipstream.

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Originally Posted by Dahlinea

On a more personal note, something that really bugs me about SMN is the fact that you have to use Bahamut/Phoenix to access G/I/T when it would make more sense to be the other way around. Even the gems near the gauge feels like it would make more sense if they filled as you used G/I/T and when the 3 are filled you get access to Bahamut/Phoenix.
I wonder if one of the reasons for this is to keep Bahamut as the opener like it was before, though stripped of everything else.

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Yeah I agree. Aetherflow should give you gems to summon Garuda, Ifrit or Titan, then spend that to access Bahamut/Phoenix. Also at this point Ruin IV should be made an oGCD you collect stacks of, then spend during Bahamut or Phoenix phases.

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Originally Posted by MrJPtheAssassin

I think that is why they did that, to have Bahamut in our opener since it is our burst phase but they could have just given smn a 120s button that just gave you the three gems to summon a demi for free(like manafication or amplifer). I like the idea of going through the element summons to get to the demi a lot better than just having demis on a timer.

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This is what they should've done.

I'm pretty sure the original reason why Bahamut is now the opener is because back in 5.x SMNs would skip DWT by prematurely using Deathflare with no DPS loss. You can use Aetherflow (and other abilities in general) outside of combat before, so you can have stacks pre-pull then wait for the cooldown to almost be ready pre-pull for a quick shortcut to Bahamut. I also remember people getting so upset that SMN was doing too much damage because of it, but SMN mains liked doing it so I guess they made it the intentional way now.

In compensation it lost a lot of flexibility and we now have this playstyle of needing to press our buttons when they're available or it's a DPS loss.

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

Everyone aside from WAR, RPR, DNC and RDM, you mean.
Also, SMN still (technically) has a DoT through Garuda's Slipstream.

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Reaper's Death Design is a dot-in-spirit since it's a debuff on the boss you need to keep 100% uptime on.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Reaper's Death Design is a dot-in-spirit since it's a debuff on the boss you need to keep 100% uptime on.

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What? How is that even remotely kinda sorta a DoT?

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Originally Posted by Arkavien

What? How is that even remotely kinda sorta a DoT?

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It's a debuff. That's literally the only thing about it that matches. It has more in common with Trick Attack than it does Bio/Miasma.

Death design is mechanically similar to dots from HW and the dots from healers/SAM.

A timer you look after and need to keep running.

It works exactly the same but it's not a dot since the end result is completely different.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Reaper's Death Design is a dot-in-spirit since it's a debuff on the boss you need to keep 100% uptime on.

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I guess Heavy Thrust was a DoT too because that's all DD is. And pumping your Det stat basically lets Reaper have +20% damage forever for free.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Minor correction. The theme itself is fine and it's fun for about two dungeons. Then the new job smell wears off and you realize you've been hitting the same two buttons for the last 20 hours and you realize there's no depth and drop it.

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ARR BLM was more or less like that and I loved it. ;_;

Anyways, some people like simpler things and the ne SMN is easily my favourite job. Though I do wish Carby was more than an emotional support animal.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

ARR BLM was more or less like that and I loved it. ;_;

Anyways, some people like simpler things and the ne SMN is easily my favourite job. Though I do wish Carby was more than an emotional support animal.

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ARR BLM was pretty simple but you are a lot more depth into the job. Piety was giving you MP, you needed a certain level of piety to get an extra fire cast. I remember because I should still have my BLM relic full on piety to get an extra fire in the rotation. When I heard job depth, it's more than just the rotation. SMN is not only simple, it's undertuned with RDM and there's no depth because there is nothing you can do as a player to make a difference with the exception of making your rotation faster or slower.

Man, I am really trying to stay away from being too dismissive, but as a new SMN Main who finally enjoys the class, this constant bashing is getting very old, very fast.

Anecdotally, I just do not see this doom and gloom reflected in the actual playerbase. There has been a huge increase if SMN's recently, up from what was one of, if not the, lowest played DPS job.

It is easier due to a lack of resources management, but it looks sick, provides a wonderful entry into Caster DPS (Especially coming from rDPS) and is a solid foundation for future improvements.

Minding a few nitpicks...

* Carby needs to go (Divorce Searing Light and Aegis from Carby)
* Ifrit still feels disappointing

...this class is by far the most fun I have had on DPS.

I really hope they continue to add to this base and leave the jank and garbage of old SMN dead and buried with other terrible iterations of jobs (Looking at you bowmage).