How would you like the Scions to be used after 6.0? [EW spoilers]

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

We could also get an emotional scene with Y'shtola, if the Shard crossover is a one way deal again. Scions start getting maimed or murdered, and we go to her for some aid/knowledge. Get a nice homey scene with her and her Manther, followed by a teary eyed Y'shtola crying into Runar's famous stew when she's vexxed at being unable to do anymore other than translate a treatise for us etc.

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Dude I nearly spit out my drink reading this lmfao.

Lots more Krile. I mean, seriously, I'm really happy they are finally giving her more to do as she became my favourite scion during the EW MSQ. The rest, though, should take a break. Even Ali, as much as I like her, should go away for a bit.

I also really hope they find some way to make Graha less grating. He's almost like a Zenos that's actually part of the scions, and that's not a good thing. Make him do something on his own so that his whole existence isn't wrapped up around the WoL (I mean, his Big Thing in EW was.. just to go on more adventures with the WoL. Not go on more adventures. Not see more places and do more things. Nope, he NEEDS to do it ALL with YOU)

Perhaps it was because I played through Endwalker in a matter of days, but by the time it was over, I was so sick of the Scions and their blob of similar, boring reactions to everything that happened. By the time credits rolled, the only ones I wanted to see in any way in the near future were Urianger, Estinien and G'raha, because those were the only ones that occasionally managed to have characterization and rise out of the constant, "did you know that bad things have happened to us in our lives and those things were very bad and sad (no we will not individualize these bad and sad things) but then we remembered that sometimes good things happen and that life is worth living so we were able to overcome our sadness when the bad things happened because we had hope and hope is very important to hold on to have I ever mentioned it's darkest before dawn, etc etc" speeches by relating them to concrete things we had seen happen to them in the game prior.

Having whined about that, though, and with more than a month to allow EW to linger, I think the Scions are overall in a pretty good place going forward. I hope (and pray) they won't immediately converge when we start our new expansion because a lot of them have redundancies in how they're used by the narrative and they're obviously too large a group for even a skilled writer like Ishikawa to juggle constantly.

As people have pointed out, Urianger and Y'shtola are typically used as crutches to explain key lore or plot points of the story, with Y'shtola at this point basically being little more than a mouthpiece to make sure you're not theorizing on the wrong track of the narrative.

Thancred, as a spy, is used to get information from places that would take too long for a quick "Meanwhile in..." cut scene. Estinien is much needed comic relief and muscle. The twins and G'raha are written to be the characters closest to the player character (and function mostly as actual lead characters when a silent protagonist isn't quite up to the task). Krile is basically a charming plot device to get kidnapped or act as Hydaelyn's arm to shove the plot along, while Tataru provides you with outfits and makes sure you're not thinking too hard about the logistics of how everything works.

The Scions are actually at their best when we see them interacting amongst themselves. The twins bickering, Urianger and Thancred raising their daughter, Alphinaud bringing Estinien home to meet his parents, Alisaie bullying G'raha, etc. This makes them feel more cohesive as a unit, because then it doesn't seem like they all fall to the ground like mannequins the second the WoL is out of sight, but I think even more could be done in regards to this.

All of the Scions interactions are a pleasant palette cleanser in EW. They all mostly get along and are united in goals. With them broken up into individuals pursuing their own interests, it would be interesting to mix them up with new NPCs that they might not like or get along with as much in future expacs, more like what HW did with the party of four on the journey to Hraesvelgr. I think there's a reason a lot of players look to that specific portion of the game as one of their favorites, even after more than half a decade. Heck, it would be interesting to see those individual goals not always coincide! Maybe Thancred and Urianger appear to be working against you at some point when they re-enter the plot--or Estinien!

All right, all that and I still haven't really answered the question. Here is what I would like best for the Scions individually.

TATARU: She's fine where the plot leaves her off.

Y'SHTOLA: I feel like Y'shtola is the biggest crutch the writers need to put down for a little while. They need to think about who Y'shtola is as a character beyond "dispenser of quips" and "let me explain the revelation we've just seen in small words so you don't get confused." A soft reboot is probably in order, where she should be offscreen long enough that we can imagine she's gotten passionate and invested in something beyond being right all the time. She was at her best with the Night's Blessed far more than she's ever been with the Scions, frankly.

THANCRED: Thancred's in a tricky spot. I think they've mined the Minfilia vein as much as they can for him at this point. Were Ryne on the Source, I feel like Thancred would have more characterization options, but they haven't done badly with creating an odd couple with him and Urianger. I think he could come back sooner than Y'shtola, but he also needs something to care about aside from events in 1.0 that the majority of the playerbase have only heard of second hand at this point.

URIANGER: Urianger should re-enter the plot around the same time as Thancred. They've been slowly branching out from his basic "lying liar that lies" to "lying liar that feels bad about lying", but the most interesting parts with him are comic relief at this point. I feel like if you keep him offscreen long enough for him and Thancred to truly feel like a unit, both will be stronger characters for it. (Especially since Urianger is all about "the ends justify the means" and Thancred...really isn't.)

ALPHINAUD: Alphinaud's character arc has been mostly done since HW, with EW basically being the little bow on top. I don't think this means that he has to leave the narrative entirely, only that it's best for him to remain doing the diplomatic stuff he's currently doing offscreen until the WoL has actual need of that diplomacy in a new situation. Of all the characters, I feel like he could probably be retired (outside of cameos) the most gracefully at this point.

ALISAIE: Unlike her brother, I don't feel like you should retire Alisaie quite yet. I think there's interesting tension to be had in her--Alisaie wants to be a hero like WoL, but does the WoL truly internalize being a hero the way she does? I do think she suffers a bit from, "I know exactly what she's going to say and when she'll say it," but I think sitting out the patches (or at most an expac) while helping her bro in Garlemald is all she really needs.

KRILE: Krile was done dirty by EW. She mostly has headaches and acts as a remote control unit for Hydaelyn, but I think the fact that she was willing to tell someone as dangerous as Zenos where we were--after what he did to her, no less!--speaks to really fascinating depths. I was truly stoked when Yoshi-P confirmed that she would be playing a role in the upcoming story.

ESTINIEN: I think Estinien will have a great time to shine relatively soon. They've managed to move away from his characterization as revenge-obsessed edgelord into someone who is still recognizable as the same person, but can run the gamut from comic relief to emotional moments. He's honestly probably one of their best success stories so far, and with his plot hooks being the most immediate, I certainly won't say no to spending more time with him.

G'RAHA: G'raha, like Estinien, is given the most immediate plot hooks in where they ended up after the credit roll. I think this was the right decision. EW did a good job of evening out the seesawing of his character we saw in ShB patches and making him into a cohesive whole. I look forward to seeing what the plot has in store for him.

We actually know for a fact Krile will be getting some focus: https://twitter.com/aitaikimochi/sta...68281961295874

Thancred to actually: https://twitter.com/aitaikimochi/sta...12433436540932

I hope they give her a new outfit. She's the only major Scion to not get new duds at this point. And she looked much better in the parts of EW with her hood down anyway.

Also on Jullus, I would really like an MSQ focused around him being officially promoted to Legatus of the 1st. He already effectively is in practice. It would be neat to see him get his own Legatus armor, and having him replace Solus as the new youngest Legatus ever would be a nice capstone of Garlemald history. Where its new shining star of hope is somebody who actually sincerely cares about it and isn't just using it for there own ends.

Honestly, all I wanted for party members going forward was for an entirely new cast of characters/trusts. The scions had their ten year arc, lets get a new cast for the next ten.

I would like to see Jullus, Gaius & Estinien. The rest can retire for good. We need new faces. And please no more Krile, gosh I can't stand her.

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

Estinien I liked. He was the first person to actually give a damn about us AND be willing to jump in and help back in HW other than moenbryda who to this day i still believe was completely wasted as a character. Everyone else prior was either full of empty platitudes or didn't seem to care about sending us against the monster of the patch

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I think Moenbryda stuck out so much because, at the time, she was one of the only Scions with a personality. I love Estinien, I think HW in general was such a contrast to ARR because the characters cared about the WoL rather than treated them as a tool.

I like Riol, but I wish they'd give him a new hairstyle. :P

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Originally Posted by tokinokanatae

THANCRED: Thancred's in a tricky spot. I think they've mined the Minfilia vein as much as they can for him at this point. Were Ryne on the Source, I feel like Thancred would have more characterization options, but they haven't done badly with creating an odd couple with him and Urianger. I think he could come back sooner than Y'shtola, but he also needs something to care about aside from events in 1.0 that the majority of the playerbase have only heard of second hand at this point.

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I'd rather have ARR or HW Thancred back. As someone on Reddit said, he went from daddy to dad and his interest as a character tanked (at least for me). This is the problem with having made his identity so wrapped up in Minfilia where you have to ask what his motivation is now. None of the other characters who've lost someone are in that position.

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Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

I also really hope they find some way to make Graha less grating. He's almost like a Zenos that's actually part of the scions, and that's not a good thing. Make him do something on his own so that his whole existence isn't wrapped up around the WoL (I mean, his Big Thing in EW was.. just to go on more adventures with the WoL. Not go on more adventures. Not see more places and do more things. Nope, he NEEDS to do it ALL with YOU)

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Oof, but yeah. His character during 5.0 was great, but he's basically a different, and less interesting, character since coming back to the Source. I suppose it's somewhat excusable, in the sense that he's probably been hyping it up in his head for over a hundred years, but he has been pretty one note as of late.

That said, it would be kinda cute if they gave him a little side-quest series, sort of like post-moogle, where you go around showing him various sites from your previous adventures, explain what happened there, maybe meet up with some of the various NPCs involved. Pure fluff stuff, but could be neat.

A lot of people getting down on Thancred.

With the recent comments made about Krile and Thancred being the focus of the story I think it's critical we remember a few things about both characters.

Krile is leader of the Students of Baldesion, which could become the new code name banner everyone rallies under (replaces Scions of Seventh Dawn). So it's easy to see her reach out to the WOL for assistance in a new problem to start a new story.

Thancred is the trained scout and infiltration master. If there is a new mystery to explore, especially one shrouded in some sort of mystery, wouldn't it make sense to bring him along? Furthermore, he has so many instances where he runs off screen to investigate something, it would be nice if the WOL tagged along for one of those missions too.

When you think about it, Krile and Thancred being the focus for the next patch is really the easy set up for something new.

I was hoping to move on from a scions focus entirely, I think they ran their course and we're long overdue being off for new adventures with new friends.
I'd like to have them as someone you see from time to time when needed, like Lyse was in EW (and I love Lyse way more than the current scions), but not main members of the cast anymore. Especially the twins, they always got waaaay too much spotlight, it's time to let them go. And possibly have more adult companions and no teenagers anymore?