please balance seals per hour

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Originally Posted by Goufunaki

Is it still an exploit if one person is allowed to grab all chest items while the other just follows?
I get what you're trying to say, but there's no rule saying they have to share rewards.

If a person drops, or lets the other party member grab everything while they're both inside, there's no real difference.

Not everyone cares about seals.

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Not to mention there's really no good way to fix something like that. What are they gonna do, kick you out if you're the only one left? Under normal circumstances that would be pretty awful.

Nobody really do the enter and drop party method. Ppl always went in as pair bc its more efficient that way.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

but people ARE doing this, which is why I mentioned it.

also heres the defenition of an exploit:

An exploit, in video games, is the use of a bug or design flaw including glitches, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.[1]

Completing totorak solo so that one person can obtain a ridiculous amount of seals was not intended otherwise your could enter solo. Therefore, it's an exploit.

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Honestly, I think the argument is somewhat moot (both sides that is). I can speak from experience, as an exceedingly casual player (I have been playing since beta, but only have 3 50s), that myself and a friend went to Toto-rak just for fun, ran a few times through the dungeon, and each came out with a cool 2-3k seals (all within an hour). We didn't do anything special (hell, I had to look up the map to remind myself where we were going).

The problem lies in how disproportional this seems to every other way of making seals.

i don't understand why there are no company leves for light parties?

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

I see. I haven't done totorak to exploit it for seals. I heard you get a lot but didn't think it was 3k/hr. (Yes I think that separating from the party so you can get all the drops is an exploit, because it's clearly not an intended mechanic.)

That being said, I think they should increase the amount you can get via leves and choco escort and fix the totorak exploit.

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What Exploit? wtf are you talking about i duo this with someone and we get damn near every drop in 3 runs and that's about 3k seals.

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Originally Posted by Keres

I think that calling solo Toto-Rak farming an exploit is pretty shaky. Where do you draw the line on what an "exploit" is?

1. Is duoing Toto-Rak and splitting the drops an exploit?
2. Is duoing Toto-Rak and giving all of the drops to one person an exploit?
3. Is duoing Toto-Rak but leaving one of the party members AFK at the entrance an exploit?
4. Is entering Toto-Rak with two people but then having one person drop party and leave after zoning in an exploit?
5. Is one person playing with two accounts (i.e. dual-boxing) to do any of the above an exploit?

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1. No, this is obviously what most people are actually doing and exactly what the developers intended.
2. No, that's like saying helping other people do anything is an exploit.
3. No, it's not the players' fault that the dungeon isn't level capped and one person is capable of soloing it.
4. No, because one person is giving up their time and opportunity for rewards to help someone else get a greater reward.
5. No, that's the advantage of paying for multiple accounts.

There shouldn't even be a discussion on this topic. Molly is the only one who thinks it's an exploit because she thinks using common sense and being efficient is equivalent to cheating.

Back on topic, players who have put in the seals to obtain a higher rank should have more opportunities to farm a greater amount of seals.

Hamlet battles should award seals depending on score as a minimum if they're going to stick to this top 20 reward system with terrible drop rates on militia gear.

They also need to get rid of "defense" leves in general that force you to sit around for the full 15 minutes when you are more than capable of handling whatever it is they throw at you. Any content where you literally just stand around and watch a clock tick down is bad content.

All the GC related content - caravan escort, GC leves, hamlet defense - has been really underwhelming. The rewards aren't worthwhile and the tasks involved are generally not enjoyable at all.

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but people ARE doing this, which is why I mentioned it.

also heres the defenition of an exploit:

An exploit, in video games, is the use of a bug or design flaw including glitches, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.[1]

Completing totorak solo so that one person can obtain a ridiculous amount of seals was not intended otherwise your could enter solo. Therefore, it's an exploit.

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And the end result is the same as if they didn't do that.

Two people go in, one guy drops to collect all items, and makes 3,000 seals in fifteen minutes. Then, they reverse the deal, and the guy who dropped fist collects all the items in the second run, making 3,000 seals in fifteen minutes. In total, each person made 3,000 seals in thirty minutes.

Two people go in, and divide the spoils, making 1,500 seals in fifteen minutes, then do it again to collect the items that they did not get on the first run, making another 1,500 seals in fifteen minutes. In total, each person made 3,000 seals in thirty minutes.

It's kind of a potato-potatoh kinda deal, no? Nothing about the drop-and-solo method you mention actually speeds the process up with relation to how many seals are being generated per hour, they're just dividing them up in a different fashion, with no change in quantity, or time spent. o.o

Hamlet Wins should award anywhere from 200-500 seals depending on your score.... 20k score = 200, 30k = 300, etc etc.

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

And the end result is the same as if they didn't do that.

Two people go in, one guy drops to collect all items, and makes 3,000 seals in fifteen minutes. Then, they reverse the deal, and the guy who dropped fist collects all the items in the second run, making 3,000 seals in fifteen minutes. In total, each person made 3,000 seals in thirty minutes.

Two people go in, and divide the spoils, making 1,500 seals in fifteen minutes, then do it again to collect the items that they did not get on the first run, making another 1,500 seals in fifteen minutes. In total, each person made 3,000 seals in thirty minutes.

It's kind of a potato-potatoh kinda deal, no? Nothing about the drop-and-solo method you mention actually speeds the process up with relation to how many seals are being generated per hour, they're just dividing them up in a different fashion, with no change in quantity, or time spent. o.o

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i have done totorok solo a couple times, i would go there hoping to find someone to join me and only be able to get someone to help me enter. That being said my fastest time solo is 26 mins so i didnt get the speed chest. You have to have it on farm status not using a map to solo. a couple more trys and id have it for sure. Id much rather go with my usual partner and we clear it in 15 mins though. I think mollys more upset about the fact that shes prob been doing leves and caravan and didnt know she could get so many seals there,lol.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

i have done totorok solo a couple times, i would go there hoping to find someone to join me and only be able to get someone to help me enter. That being said my fastest time solo is 26 mins so i didnt get the speed chest. You have to have it on farm status not using a map to solo. a couple more trys and id have it for sure. Id much rather go with my usual partner and we clear it in 15 mins though. I think mollys more upset about the fact that shes prob been doing leves and caravan and didnt know she could get so many seals there,lol.

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A good point. Doing Toto-rak solo would actually be slower, due to more backtracking. o.O I should have thought of that.

So the would-be exploit is actually more inefficient than simply duoing as normal. o.o Which brings us back to the OP topic - seal leves and caravans need some tweaking of the upward variety.