Endwalker White Mage has Issues

guys if they're ogcd we can't pair it with Pi, the thing that actually makes it a good heal lol.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

Holy III is really sad honestly.

Holy finally gets an upgrade and it's "only" 10 more potency. The animation is cool though.
I think it should get the Gravity treatment. At this point, every healer have a 1,5s cast time or instant cast aoe.

Also, I'd like to see an additionnal effect to it.(every healer actually)
I find it sad that the animation is a lily exploding but its usage isn't synergizing with its kit.

It deserves better treatment.

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Thin Air needs to be changed back to its old form.
Whether that, or keep the charge system and the 60s CD, but let it work on the next 3/4 spells.

It'll feel better.
Not every situation is about having a "Rez skill ready".
Besides, it's amusing because if you want to switcast/thin air a raise, you can't do it in between Glare III and you gotta do it in a 2 weaving space window (regen, lily spell).

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Aquaveil is nice, but i'd add 2s to it (8s -> 10s). It's not that much an issue, but since WHM doesn't have as much oGCD as the other healer, I think it's important for the one he gets to be strong.

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Is Benediction still worth a 3min CD ? Honestly, I think not. Considering what we get each expansion, our healing kit keep getting better. And this 3min cooldown is arbitrary long nowadays.
I'd keep it at 2min though. It's still strong, especially for living dead.

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Afflatus Misery needs to be adjusted.
Making it DPS neutral (1240 pot - not counting using it under buff window and stuff) would probably make it be too strong, especially if you can charge it in downtime.
But, considering Glare III is 10 potency higher now... At least make it be 940 pot (or just a flat 1000)

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Assize really needs a second charge
Charges showed us how comfy it is to be able to sit on one charge (any reason). It could make assize being used for healing purposes and not being afraid of loosing one usage if we want to hold it 5 more seconds for a raidwide aoe.

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From a design perspective having Lillies as the core job mechanic be suboptimal just doesn't feel right as well. Considering you generate 1 Lilly per 30 seconds in combat using them should be rewarding, you shouldn't feel bad about using it because you lost DPS.

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Originally Posted by Basherr

From a design perspective having Lillies as the core job mechanic be suboptimal just doesn't feel right as well. Considering you generate 1 Lilly per 30 seconds in combat using them should be rewarding, you shouldn't feel bad about using it because you lost DPS.

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Lilies were fundamentally flawed since their inception in SB. ShB made them better but not perfect and EW just kind of forgot about them instead of expanding on them.

I honestly feel WHM could use an overhaul at this point because it's just a mess from start to finish.

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Originally Posted by Acece

guys if they're ogcd we can't pair it with Pi, the thing that actually makes it a good heal lol.

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I see the sentiment that the lily spells should be ogcds a lot, and I agree that this is not necessary, and that they should remain gcds. I think it's an interesting part of whm's identify to be a gcd healer and given afflatus misery already exists to balance out dps loss, there is no reason it cannot stay a gcd healer and be competitive with the other healers.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

I honestly feel WHM could use an overhaul at this point because it's just a mess from start to finish.

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Whm definitely needs a lot of tweaks, but I'm not sure I would go so far as to say it needs an overhaul or rework. It's just that a lot of little things are out of wack with it atm, but making some combination of the changes proposed in this thread I think would solve basically all the problems whm is facing right now.

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Originally Posted by Ryme

Whm definitely needs a lot of tweaks, but I'm not sure I would go so far as to say it needs an overhaul or rework. It's just that a lot of little things are out of wack with it atm, but making some combination of the changes proposed in this thread I think would solve basically all the problems whm is facing right now.

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I'm more referring to an overhaul along the lines that BLM and MNK got, with skills and traits being moved to lower levels of play and/or skills being reworked to be lower level version of our current toolkit. It's not like SE haven't removed a number of our skills just to reintroduce them again under a different name anyways. Divine Seal becoming Temperance, Stoneskin becoming Divine Benison, Aqua Veil being little more than the old PvP version of Protect. SE just needs to stop pretending that their players are idiots that can't see the parallels and just commit to a trait upgrade system so they can return all those skills to us so low level WHM doesn't feel like ass to play. They could also stand to lower the levels we get Solace and Rapture because we need those skills a lot earlier than 52 and 76, especially Rapture because 76 is excessive for a Medica 1 substitute. There's just a lot of wasted potential for WHM.

Picked up Sage today and honestly....it baffles me. Every skill they have at level 70 is better thought out than WHMs skills. How is it possible we can get a healer that has so many amazing skills while WHM is left in the absolute dirt like it has been in EW. WHM is in dire need of an overhaul to keep up with the other healers. How on earth did the developers give the other 3 healers that many amazing ogcds and made it so they can do damage while healing and then decide that WHM that has no grouputility is not even going to do big damage compared to the others? I don't get it and I am honestly sad over it.I really hope that whm has their thin air back and some potency buffs because this is tragic.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

I'm more referring to an overhaul along the lines that BLM and MNK got, with skills and traits being moved to lower levels of play and/or skills being reworked to be lower level version of our current toolkit. It's not like SE haven't removed a number of our skills just to reintroduce them again under a different name anyways. Divine Seal becoming Temperance, Stoneskin becoming Divine Benison, Aqua Veil being little more than the old PvP version of Protect. SE just needs to stop pretending that their players are idiots that can't see the parallels and just commit to a trait upgrade system so they can return all those skills to us so low level WHM doesn't feel like ass to play. They could also stand to lower the levels we get Solace and Rapture because we need those skills a lot earlier than 52 and 76, especially Rapture because 76 is excessive for a Medica 1 substitute. There's just a lot of wasted potential for WHM.

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I feel like this overhaul needs to happen especially because WHM is the only Healer new players can play for the first 30 levels.
between level 12 and 30 WHM learns nothing but 2 role actions... that's 18 level ups...
SCH isn't much better in that regard but at least pet commands give a illusion of complexity at low levels.

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Originally Posted by RinaShinomiya

I feel like this overhaul needs to happen especially because WHM is the only Healer new players can play for the first 30 levels.
between level 12 and 30 WHM learns nothing but 2 role actions... that's 18 level ups...
SCH isn't much better in that regard but at least pet commands give a illusion of complexity at low levels.

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And that's a very easy issue to fix.
Return Fluid Aura as a low level version of Assize at level 15.
Return Protect as a low level version of Aqua Veil at level 20
Return Stoneskin as low level Divine Benison unlocked at 25.
Make them all quest rewards for doing your CNJ class quests to emphasis the importance of doing them to unlock more skills.

The early gameplay experience is important because you're introducing new players to the game and want to set a good precedence for them but other than a handful of classes, early gameplay is an absolute snoozefest with very little to look forward to.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

I'm more referring to an overhaul along the lines that BLM and MNK got, with skills and traits being moved to lower levels of play and/or skills being reworked to be lower level version of our current toolkit. It's not like SE haven't removed a number of our skills just to reintroduce them again under a different name anyways. Divine Seal becoming Temperance, Stoneskin becoming Divine Benison, Aqua Veil being little more than the old PvP version of Protect. SE just needs to stop pretending that their players are idiots that can't see the parallels and just commit to a trait upgrade system so they can return all those skills to us so low level WHM doesn't feel like ass to play. They could also stand to lower the levels we get Solace and Rapture because we need those skills a lot earlier than 52 and 76, especially Rapture because 76 is excessive for a Medica 1 substitute. There's just a lot of wasted potential for WHM.

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My mistake, I misunderstood what you meant. This I absolutely agree with as well, early leveling with whm is awful, it basically feels like playing half a class until you hit level 50 and even then it's kind of rough. This is definitely another area of whm that needs some serious attention. Hopefully this can also be addressed sometime within EW so whm can have a much smoother leveling experience and get to an endgame that isn't filled with confusing issues.

As of today I wish for these kind of fixes :
- Assize : give it two charges (adjust potencies accordingly if needed but I don't think it does) and make it regen 800 or 1 000 MP
- Thin air : it needs a slight buff depending on whether they increase the MP regen of Assize. The simplest way would be reverting it back to its previous iteration (a MP free duration).
- Misery shouldn't be a DPS loss in an uptime situation. That would mean increasing its potency to 1 240 I believe. If that's too much, then keep 900 and make the blood lily generated after two Lily spells, so it's almost DPS neutral (30 potency loss I think?)
(-would it be OP to have lilies already up at every pull like Sage's addergall ? If they worry about Misery being too strong in an opener, it could be "in combat only")
- Lilybell is strong in potency but could do with some QoL. Either a detonate button, or a shorter CD with a reduced healing potency (like Sage's Panhaima for instance)
(-a DPS lily spell would solve a lot of issues but we'll never get that, right)