Healers, not required. (EW SPOILERS)

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Originally Posted by Duskane

that trial blows chunks anyway
heres your trial guide
follow the leader
tank swap
you've cleared

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That's pretty much my first clear: Follow the marked player
Done.

It is quite ironic how Squeenix fails to design proper Healer and Tank Jobs, and yet have the audacity to say "do some Devs even play their own Games?"

There are ALOT of ways to fix the issues on both Healers and Tanks. Everyone here who has experienced multiple MMOs in his life, knows that normally, Specialist Roles such as Healers and Tanks, arent suppoest to be generalized down to the bare bones.

- I think its stupid Game design that every Job has Party Utilities that should normally be in the hands if Healer and Support classes (like Bard, DNC and RDM).
- It is also stupid that RDM and SMN have access to the same Res Skill as Healers have (which destroys another aspect of the main duty of Healers). IF Res should be inplimented into another Class outside of the Healer Role, it should be alot more restricted, like having a 2-5Min CD and that it cannot be swift-/dualcasted.
- Tanks being now way too beefy, renders Healers completely unnecessary. Bloodwhetting/Heart of Corundum aside (which are way too potent), Tanks already had too many ways of the same type of dmg mitigation, and the more they get, the less Healers get something to do (cut the amount of Tank CD's that reduce dmg by X amount in half and give Tanks a "Parry Skill" that isnt straight up broken. For example, -10% dmg reduction for 4-6sec for the next attack recieved, but if you dont get hit by anything during that time and it wears off, u recieve +10% dmg for the same amount of time, also on GCD)
- If you want Healers to be healing properly, then give them actual Skills that actually compliment their other Skills in their Kit more, instead of giving them simple black and white fashioned abilities. This is a MMORPG, not Dragon Quest.

Also, Get yourself a proper Team for Job design and remove the people who currently do it. Youre failing for 3 Expansions in a Row now and it is only getting worse. The fact that Healers have to deal with this mess for another 2-3 Years at least, is just Unfair.

Tl;dr: Dont design Tanks and Healers, if you dont play Tank or Healer in MMOs.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

"no healers required"

take away second wind, curing waltz, bloodbath, clemency and bloodwhetting. if we don't need healers, we don't need healing actions.

oh wait...

edit: let's also not forget this is a premade that knows what they're doing. half of my own datacenter would be helpless without healers in the party.

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That's not how this works at all. Unless you intend to say a healer is only identified by their heal. Is this true? Then let's just rip that pesky damage spell and DoT they have. Shields? Haha, that's not a heal. Out you go. Buffs? Unless that buff makes HP go zoom, it should be shoved into the shredder and fed yet to another DPS as they are want to do.

What an insipid argument. There's plenty of reasons this proves little, but to say "If you have no healers, no heals allowed" is almost mind-numbingly insulting. It's this notion that healers and healing are so fundamentally married that one simply cannot exist without the other that has made the healing class able to be played to utter perfection by some primitive bot. If people can survive without healers because they have their own heals, that's a reality you can't modify to satisfy your snarky belief.

I'm positive you are very graceful and proud in your ability to press two buttons. Maybe, when you're feeling spicy, even THREE. But let's not pretend like healers have, ever had, or will ever have a monopoly on healing.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

It is quite ironic how Squeenix fails to design proper Healer and Tank Jobs, and yet have the audacity to say "do some Devs even play their own Games?"

There are ALOT of ways to fix the issues on both Healers and Tanks. Everyone here who has experienced multiple MMOs in his life, knows that normally, Specialist Roles such as Healers and Tanks, arent suppoest to be generalized down to the bare bones.

- I think its stupid Game design that every Job has Party Utilities that should normally be in the hands if Healer and Support classes (like Bard, DNC and RDM).
- It is also stupid that RDM and SMN have access to the same Res Skill as Healers have (which destroys another aspect of the main duty of Healers). IF Res should be inplimented into another Class outside of the Healer Role, it should be alot more restricted, like having a 2-5Min CD and that it cannot be swift-/dualcasted.
- Tanks being now way too beefy, renders Healers completely unnecessary. Bloodwhetting/Heart of Corundum aside (which are way too potent), Tanks already had too many ways of the same type of dmg mitigation, and the more they get, the less Healers get something to do (cut the amount of Tank CD's that reduce dmg by X amount in half and give Tanks a "Parry Skill" that isnt straight up broken. For example, -10% dmg reduction for 4-6sec for the next attack recieved, but if you dont get hit by anything during that time and it wears off, u recieve +10% dmg for the same amount of time, also on GCD)
- If you want Healers to be healing properly, then give them actual Skills that actually compliment their other Skills in their Kit more, instead of giving them simple black and white fashioned abilities. This is a MMORPG, not Dragon Quest.

Also, Get yourself a proper Team for Job design and remove the people who currently do it. Youre failing for 3 Expansions in a Row now and it is only getting worse. The fact that Healers have to deal with this mess for another 2-3 Years at least, is just Unfair.

Tl;dr: Dont design Tanks and Healers, if you dont play Tank or Healer in MMOs.

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What I like most about FFXIV is that it's not like other MMOs... which is a good thing because the game is wiping the floor with the other MMOs, and for a good reason.

FFXIV is seeing record numbers flock to it. I think the dev team is doing something right. If you so pine for the feel of another MMO perhaps play them a bit?

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Originally Posted by lezard21

Well, players have this notion that healing is hard and requires skill.

While that might once have been true, healing has been baby-fied into one button press for full HP job ever since ShB.

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My 2.0 WHM had Benediction, can't recall if my 1.0 CNJ did as well .. just saying.

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Originally Posted by Veliaire

What I like most about FFXIV is that it's not like other MMOs... which is a good thing because the game is wiping the floor with the other MMOs, and for a good reason.

FFXIV is seeing record numbers flock to it. I think the dev team is doing something right. If you so pine for the feel of another MMO perhaps play them a bit?

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The only right thing they are doing, is anything BUT the parts that involve adjustments on any of the Jobs. IF FFXIV didnt had that much of a engaging Story, i doubt it would be as successful as it is today.

This thread is just nihilists, smug gits and overly defensive healers throwing hands.

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Originally Posted by Veliaire

What I like most about FFXIV is that it's not like other MMOs... which is a good thing because the game is wiping the floor with the other MMOs, and for a good reason.

FFXIV is seeing record numbers flock to it. I think the dev team is doing something right. If you so pine for the feel of another MMO perhaps play them a bit?

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Besides the fact that this is effectively an appeal to popularity fallacy...

This is likely anecdotal, but most every praise I've seen for the game since it started to balloon in popularity was praise for the story, the gear mechanics, and the choreography of the fights as aspects that were making the game great in spite of the less than stellar class gameplay. When it came to class gameplay, most people seemed to feel that previous expansions (those before Shadowbringers) had stronger gameplay elements for classes, in particular for healers and tanks. The only classes that appeared to be "good" were DPS. And I honestly agree.

I think the game became popular in spite of the class gameplay for those two roles. Healers have been openly suffering for a long time while being ignored by the devs, and tanks are consistently a mixed bag. If I could get the same level of quality in story/gearing mechanics in other games as I could here but with more care and attention paid to healers or tanks I'd jump on that game over FFXIV in a heartbeat.

WAR can keep itself alive without a healer.
PLD practically IS a healer.
DNC's rotate Healing Waltzes.

Pretty much what they did with E4S only with SMNs instead of RPRs.

Maybe, but I’m not one of those players.