Revelations from Tales from the Twilight

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

there's a difference between an addition-retcon and a subtraction-retcon.

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Agree, and I don't think I worded what I meant well enough - or, I've had a bit of time to think, and what I would have said is that this feels like a slightly inelegant use of additive-retcon, for all the reasons you mentioned, Moose, such as it not having been a part of Fordola and Lyse's interactions before. I feel like all these stories are setting us up for either 6.0 threads, or 6.1-onwards threads, and I just hope they stick the landing of this one.

I rather liked this one, even if it felt a little off.

They are really free to do whatever they want with Yda in prior timeframes, so her being a big focus in it is no trouble at all. Yda having facial tattoos that are Ala Mhigan is also no trouble. Though when Enkidoh brings up the idea that they're supposed to be Sharlayan... well... think of Nyunkrefpt's Ark. Who's to say that Sharlayans didn't lift some designs as they made their way overland and away from Gyr Abania all those moons ago? Think of Buckler Stew.


Moose, what makes you say that Fordola joined the XIVth and begrudgingly found herself in the XIIth? Is it a timeframe error? She looks to be nearly fully grown when she's in her join up cutscene, and she's only 19 at her introduction in Stormblood. Gaius was no longer the viceroy, with the XIVth no longer in Ala Mhigo by when?

Eh. That was interesting conceptually but felt like a pointless retcon. It's there to connect two unrelated plot points for no good reason. Which is weird, because most of the time the writers are very good about making everything, even the obvious retcons, fit in perfectly with the existing story and lore. Not this time though. I should have been thinking "oh, of course that's how it happened!" but instead it was "really? That's what they're trying to pull now?"

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Originally Posted by Mieck

I feel like all these stories are setting us up for either 6.0 threads, or 6.1-onwards threads, and I just hope they stick the landing of this one.

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All other things being equal they've got a few more weeks to read our reactions, consider our critiques, and shove a few edits in before THE MERGE, ahaha. My position is always, "Have faith, and if it doesn't pan out, call attention to the supposed issue with positivity and curiosity and see what happens."

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Moose, what makes you say that Fordola joined the XIVth and begrudgingly found herself in the XIIth?

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From the story's perspective, Gaius has been dead less than a year and her career spans longer than that; she named both herself and her unit after him and uses weapon-skills learned from him; she was given leadership of an entire cohort based on his meritocracy (not something Zenos's unit would have come up with on their own), and comments made by the NPCs at certain junctures.

Aforementioned quick quote-shot from Sounsyy:

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Silence, Ala Mhigan! You do forget yourself! Only by the grace of Lord van Baelsar were you afforded a place here─and that in name alone! We have no need of your ‘proposals,’ savage.

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Ah, the savage returns. And with her tail firmly between her legs. Beaten by beastmen, I hear. ‘Twas a shameful display, by all accounts. She may have curried the viceroy’s favor with her bold promises, but in the end, she’s just another plodding bungler like the rest of her kind. Strange, you would think him a better judge of character. Then again, I hear she’s not averse to a more physical mode of persuasion. Hah, I thought she rose through the ranks rather quickly. But no longer. If only she had been content with her lot, she might have lived to see the morrow.

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I think the idea that she had played her hand the best she could and lost because of Zenos's unexpected ascendance is best communicated in the scene where she fires on her friends in the tower. She doesn't want to. She hates it. And even though everyone there is willing to let her not fire, and speak out against firing, she knows all it would do is get her and her friends murdered by Zenos for failure and/or disobedience and invalidate the very narrative they've dedicated their lives to building: Ala Mhigans can be trusted. Ala Mhigans have what it takes to make the hard calls. Ala Mhigans win battles. Any choice she had to not fire was an illusion, but she never would have ended up there at all if she didn't believe in Gaius's misled notions of what Garlemald really was and could be, of what responsibilities the strong had to the weak, and that there was no ceiling when merit was all that mattered.

Part of me feels like this was a retcon, and part of me doesn't.

Fordola knowing Yda is a curve outta left field, and as was pointed out, she never told Lyse, making it feel like it's a pretty bad addition. I do however think there's some logic as to why she didn't say anything. Why would she broadcast something she blames herself for, especially to the little sister of the woman she got killed? It's likely that to this day it's a sore spot for her, a moment when she realized just how powerless she was, just like when she had to give the order to open fire on her own friends. Overall while nice for explaining and continually showing that Fordola and Lyse are foils to one another, it's also a bit unnecessary at this juncture. It's also a reminder on how badly the Ala Mhigan side of Stormblood was done.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Part of me feels like this was a retcon, and part of me doesn't.

Fordola knowing Yda is a curve outta left field, and as was pointed out, she never told Lyse, making it feel like it's a pretty bad addition. I do however think there's some logic as to why she didn't say anything. Why would she broadcast something she blames herself for, especially to the little sister of the woman she got killed? It's likely that to this day it's a sore spot for her, a moment when she realized just how powerless she was, just like when she had to give the order to open fire on her own friends. Overall while nice for explaining and continually showing that Fordola and Lyse are foils to one another, it's also a bit unnecessary at this juncture. It's also a reminder on how badly the Ala Mhigan side of Stormblood was done.

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Message reply

Could also be that she doesn't realise that Lyse might be the same Lyse that Yda spoke of, or she could have forgot completely. I'm expecting this is a set up for later on where Fordola will have an echo of Lyse and realise who she is in relation to Yda

Another note on the tattoo(s)

Darth Xelion pointed out to me that Fordola got the same eye tattoo her dad had. I'll add to that that Curtis Hext doesn't seem to have had an eye tattoo. Wonder what Yda's looked like, then...?

https://imgur.com/a/L4sJ97R[/url] Here is a image of Fordola Dad

Here we go

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Yeah, I feel the same - especially

that once Fordola got the Resonance she would have certainly seen glimpses of Lyse's past, and yet... said nothing. Not one word, despite this story supposedly stating it was Yda who convinced Fordola to become the bitter pragmatic survivalist over everything else that she ultimately became before the Liberation. Sure she has her stubborn pride and all, but pride and stubbornness can only carry you so far. Hell, given Fordola's attitude and personality pre-heel-turn, I doubt wouldn't have passed up the opportunity to use that knowledge to mock Lyse or at least throw her off during their encounters prior to the final battle in Ala Mhigo, and yet, she did not do that either. It just.... seems odd.

That and the story made it out Yda's Sharalyan tattoo was of Ala Mhigan design... unless it stated she had a facial tattoo when she had none at all, at least, when compared with her model in 1.0 (an old Gridanian story cutscene in 1.0 showed her without her mask apparently without any facial tattoos and the Sharalyan one was on her neck after all). It comes across as another odd retcon.

This is an interesting story, but these retcons to shoehorn in Yda into Fordala's backstory just seem a little... off I guess.

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Would she though,

the Echo doesn't show us every single person we meet history & I doubt Fordola is showing her everyone's whose nearby she wouldn't be able to operate we see what happens when we have Echo flashbacks we basically can't do jack we never see her have a flashback around Lyse other then when she sees our past.

On the Tattoo part I imagine it could be both her Dad & Yda since it's noted as like traditional Ala Mhigan tattoo.

Something to bring up regarding Echo stuff and how it intersects with the latest one.

Not everyone gets Echo flashbacks--that appears to be the WoL's 'echo gimmick', like how Krile's (and probably Fordola's, she doesn't describe it well) is sensing aether, Zenos' (and the Sahagin Priest's) is possession, and Mikoto's is future sight. So... no, Fordola can't plausibly have seen Lyse's memories of Yda, because she can't see memories at all.

So it's reasonable to assume this will probably never come up. Lyse and Fordola are aware of each other, but aren't on 'speaking openly about probably irrelevant parts of their history' terms. And hell, we don't even know how common the names 'Lyse' and 'Yda' are; from our perspective we recognize that a fictional world only has double-up names if somehow appropriate, but to them? Maybe 'Yda' is the Ala Mhigan equivalent of, like, 'Claire' and you meet so many that learning that someone's sister's name is super normal.

And my feel on 'how does this affect the world' or 'is this a retcon'... eh. It's, like, the Metal Gear style of 'I mean, I guess' loose end linkups. It doesn't really affect any reading, it will probably never come up, it just exists for lore nerds to bring up for fun. I'm fine with those.